TeamCapri
Tech, Repairs, Upgrades => Non-Capri Usable Car Parts => Topic started by: CapriProject on June 28, 2010, 01:49:00 PM
-
Hi, I really new to the FWD Capri. I just bought a (non-running) 1991 Capri project car this past Tuesday. I wanted it for a hobby project because I really like the over all looks, hide-a-way top & other points. The first thing I'd like to change is the trans. It has the 5-speed & I'd like to swap it over to an automatic. What are the other 'doner car' options that I can use for the trans? Does the ECM have to be changed too? Has anyone here done this swap before? Thanks for any help.
-
ECU for sure and then you need to figure out the wiring. I think the axle are different too.
Why go with the AT..the NA 5 speed is slow, i could not imagine what it would be like in an auto
do a turbo swap, same amount of work basically and much better result
-
I understand the "why auto" when it comes to the little car's performance. My project involves keeping the 'passenger compartment' pretty stock but totally modifing the rest. The end result will have the FWD set-up as a mid-engine RWD set-up. Shifting the standard trans in that position would be very hard to do - thus the auto.
My end result isn't to "restore" this Capri but to incorporate the parts I really like into a very different vehicle. As you can tell, it isn't a "bolt-on" project.
If you know of another way to shift the standard trans with it being behind both the driver & the engine... Please let me know because that's the only reason I'm looking into an auto trans swap.
-
Everyone swaps from auto to 5spd... i've never seen it done the other way around.
Can I ask the reason for wanting to go to a/t?
Swapping would be an extremely involved process.
-
The rod linkage sucks yes, but it can be re-worked for an MR setup, I've looked into it and will be doing it at some point in the near future.
Look into some of the MR setups a couple of the Honda folk have pulled off...its definately possible
-
Unless there's a hydraulic or cable way to shift the 5-speed trans, I'm pretty much stuck with an auto trans. The stock mechanical shifter would be where the rear bumper is once the engine/trans is mover to the RWD position.
-
The back of the trans itself will be about 10" behind the centerline of the wheels, which leaves plenty of room. You will need to cut / modify / remove the vert top storage though.
You will need to weld new linkage, offset a bit, but not impossible. Just run the bars toward the rear instead of toward the front. The actions of the shifter will be kept the same, you just need to route the linkage around the trans.
I'm playing with the idea of using a cheap junkyard cable shifter and making up some levers to form a quadrant box on the back of the trans. Seems like the easiest route at the moment.
-
Again I've only had this car since Tuesday & have not gotten started on it so I'm sure you know the stock set-up much better than me & once I jack-up the car to get 'hands-on' it will make better sense to me. Right now (from pictures) the shifter rod comes straight back from the trans. The shift movement 'forward & back' as well as rotating for going through the 'neutral gate' would have to be done in reverse if the driver was sitting in front of the engine/trans instead of behind it. The engine would now be located between the driver & the trans so I'm having difficulty envisioning a straight 'line-of-site' route for the shift rod to take.
Again, I'll probably be able to speak more clearly once I crawl under the car. I've fabricated a few custom vehicles as a "shade-tree" mechanic but I've never messed with a FWD set-up... I'm a little out of my comfort zone right now but that makes it more of a new hobby.
-
the trans will be behind you yes but you will not be changing the orientation of it. The shift rod will have identical movements, the trans is just behind you. The shift pattern remains the same, nothing has to be reversed.
There is only one moving rod in the linkage, the other is a stabilizer bar. The shifter twists the rod via a Tee style connection. It also moves back/forth.
You will need to fabricate a bar from the stock shifter location, to the back of the trans where it will sit once relocated. I planned on using the exhaust cut out in the oil pan to run the linkage. All you need is a minor twist L/R & push/pull action. Have a good look once you get under the car
-
Much thanks... I'll be pushing the car into my shop tomorrow. Depending how long it takes me to re-arrange my junk & make the room...I'll try to check it out better.
-
In the DSM world they got stick to auto because the auto tranny holds up better. other then that..ya i never seen it go that way.
i dont think this auto tranny would hold crap for power
-
"DSM"? I must admit I don't know what that's short for. As far as this project putting out a ton of 'performance' that the auto couldn't handle... that's not my objective. The end result will be a fun little cruiser not a street rocket. Nothing wrong with a street rocket just not the plans for this project.
-
DSM is what is in his sig.
-
DSM = Diamond Star Motors, otherwise know as Mitsubishi
-
I know this is probably a dumb idea, but have you ever seen the shift mechanism on the "Spyker"? www.spykercars.com (http://www.spykercars.com) Seems like an interesting way to move a shift lever forward of trans in rear engined car.
-
Diamond Star Motors ... OK, I see now Thanks.
As far as the Spyker, great looking but I didn't find any pics of their shifter layout.
After taking a peek under the Capri today I'll have to give a bit more thought as to which path I'm going to take with this project. My original plans got changed when I saw it's a unibody constuction plus the front suspension being a strut type (not a wishbone) plus the transmission shift issue vs auto trans.
Not trans related but if I want to dump the ECM is there a way to still use the fuel injection set-up or will I need to go to a carb? I know it's a wierd question.
-
I say go ITB's if anything, a carb would be different too.
ITB's means individual throttle body's if you didn't know.
-
ITB's are pretty involved if you keep fuel injection. You will need to go to standalone fuel management.
If you want to keep the FI but ditch the ECU, you'll need to replace it with an aftermarket ECU. Theres no way to keep EFI and ditch the computer that controls it.
I've heard of Miata guys (similar or same B6 engine, but RWD setup) converting to sidedraft carbs for certain track use. I'm not sure what your intentions with the car are but its a option, but you're going to need nearly all custom parts to pull it off.
-
I kinda figured it had to have ECU to keep the EFI but I was keeping my fingers crossed that there was a way around it.
As far as what my current project is... well, it will sound retarded to most. I want to make a 3-wheeled car. With modifing my bike (was my last project)I've been checking out 3-wheeled bikes & it got me thinking about a 3-wheeled car instead. Any 3-wheeled vehicle (in Texas) is titled & registered as a motorcycle. The state inspection process for a 'motorcycle' is nothing compaired to what a 'modern' car's inspection is (no smog inspection among other items). Also if you choose (or forget) to wear your seatbelt = no ticket. Only one freeway lane moving, 'motorcycles' can use the HOV lane with one person. Best of both worlds, if your out for a ride & the weather changes a bike can't put-up the top & crank-up the AC. A previous project of mine had my hands tied by the strict automotive 'state inspection process' so that also got me thinking along these lines. Originally I was looking to move the FWD set-up to the rear and 'splice' on a donor car's right side wheel set-up centered in front. Now, with it being a unibody & the shift linkage/auto issue, I'm working on how it'll work (& look) with the stock set-up & a single rear wheel. Basicaly, the two rear wheels on the Capri only supply additional breaking to the vehicle. If it had a twice as wide single rear wheel with a stronger brake unit the contact 'footprint' would be the same. Now, this vehicle wouldn't retain the stock Capri sheet metal look so it wouldn't be an obvious 3-wheeled Capri rolling down the street.
Anyway, there's a long winded view of my 'project'.
-
Interesting, so you want to have one wheel in the back or one in the front?
One wheel in the back is more stable I believe and is pretty popular amongst the the eco-mod guys that build mileage machines.
-
Hey Capriproject, dude your crazy, and trust me, I know crazy. We're going to get along great.
-
With almost 7 billion people on this earth I figured I wasn't the only crazy one. If we didn't like different things we would just be a bunch of ants.
Originally I envisioned the 2 rear wheel /1 front wheel look... but with the Capri's structure it looks like the reverse is a more direct approach. It will be an easier mechanical project but a harder visual job. The modifing of the front sheet metal look will be "easy" but keeping a flowing 'non-bulky' line without wheel well openings will involve some sketches to develope a look. As far as the EFI subject I guess I'll just have to learn how to keep the ECU...(not my strong suit)
-
Heres a 3 wheel metro, not sure if it was done in seriousness or just as a joke, the big exhaust pipe kinda hints the latter...
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/theclencher/3wheel2.jpg)
-
To keep the ECU you just move the entire wiring harness... nothing super complicated with that. Just need to make extentsions where the harnesses won't meet anymore - as long as you aren't changing the engine for a different type then the wiring is all there, just needs to be blended back into itself once moved
-
That Metro looks a little too utilitarian for me. I'd need a little more style. I really wish I could keep to my original plan with the engine/trans/radiator & 2 wheels in the rear. The front narrows to about the same width as the slot where the hood release is now. With the single wheel in the rear the body lines just doesn't work as nice.
I understand what your saying about just extending the wires but my issue is that the Capri isn't a running car. The previous owner installed a new short block & couldn't get the timing right for it to start & run. The marks are right on the cams and he thought the lower timing gear was having issues with the keyway. He said the old gear didn't seem to the same size as the new crank. It sounds like he forced it & the keyway isn't stopping the gear from turning on the crank (thus screwing-up the timing) The ECU was in the trunk with some other parts so I have no clue as to what other issues may be also screwing-up the timing. I've just got it inside my shop so I haven't looked at the lower timing gear to see for myself. I have no idea how to 'check-out' an ECU so that will be a learning process for me. (why I was hopeing I could toss it)
The main reasons I whent with the Capri was the passenger compartment layout, the clean way the convertable top stows away, the duel cam engine with 'fresh' pistons & bearings. What I didn't check-out before getting it was the strut front end & unibody. My 'old-school' planning envisioned a rolling frame I could modify first then modify & install a body.
Even with it being a unibody I could still do my original plan IF I could change the direction of the final drive. With the FWD spun around to make a rear engine RWD it would have 5 speeds in reverse & 1 speed forward. The kicker is reversing the final drive rotation. I guess I'm stuck with the single rear wheel option.
-
Why would you have to spin the engine around to install it in the rear? Leaving it face the same direction it is now but move back ~10ft you will have 5 forward gears. This is how all the MR setups I've seen done. Reversing the final drive is kind of out of the question these Mazda transmissions are not very easy to modify
It sounds like he may have had a short-nose crank in the old block and put a large nose block in, the pullies are not compatible. I hope he didn't screw up the new crank by forcing bits to work.
Here's some info regarding the actual engine you have and some of the small/large nose crank info http://www.solomiata.com/Mx5Engine.html (http://www.solomiata.com/Mx5Engine.html)
-
Thanks for the link...
With the Capri front suspension's lower A-arm fitting on to the 'frame' behind the wheel... cutting the whole front section & spinning it around to join the back end of those 'frame' tubes would line up. That would keep the engine/trans as stock except running backwards. To keep the motor/trans facing forward while spinning around the support 'frame' would require swapping the CV shafts (short one over to long one's position) & modifing the engine/trans supports to allow the mounting 180 degrees from stock. The only way I can see to make the final drive rotation to work in the 'rear-engine' position would be to to rotate the transmission on it's axis & make an adapter plate to allow the engine to re-bolt to the now 'upsidedown' trans. Would work with the 5-speed but couldn't work with an auto because of the fluid pump pick-up & sump. Again, it a matter of which 'pain-in-the-butt' step it will take to allow the final goal. I'm still planning out-loud with the possible options available.
-
Correction... The upside-down trans idea was to correct the shifter connection of the trans to be faceing the driver when the engine/trans was moved to the "mid-engine" rear wheel drive position. It wasn't to reverse the final drive (that's still an unknown). The mid-engine idea still would need the other mentioned changes as far as working with the flipped front 'uniframe' section.
-
Correction #2...
OK, I'm confusing myself. If the front "unibody/frame" section was spun around & re-attached to the rear of the 'uniframe'180 degrees...then the trans was rotated on it's axis & re-attached upside down to the engine via an adapter plate...the CV shafts switched & the motor/trans mounts modified...Then you would have the engine behind the rear wheels, the final drive rotation correct, the shiter connection faceing the back of the driver. Simple right?
-
Honestly, IMHO, you're overthinking a lot of this. The trans and engine can be kept in the same orientation, with some creative linkage will shift normally. No adapter plates needed. Many people have done this on similarly setup vehicles without anything super involved like that.
The control arms can be moved from the front to the back, just need to make some custom mounts on the rear frame to accept them.
It'll help to look at some projects already completed. This particular one looks completely factory, and is a particular source of inspiration for me: http://www.team-integra.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=15&TopicID=106670 (http://www.team-integra.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=15&TopicID=106670)
Its a 94 Acura Integra with the stock engine relocated to the rear.
-
Damn, Matt - that thread you linked to is 262 pages!! I was hooked after reading the first page. I know what I'll be reading for the next week!
(so much for getting the cars ready for the meet........ (http://graemlins/big-down.gif) )
-
Thanks for the link... Real nice job & well thought out.
I'm going to give my project's plans some major thought for the next week & then diside once & for all which direction I'm going to proceed with it. I've got to remember that I'm the one who needs to enjoy doing this & will like the results or why bother.
Thanks for all the input !!