TeamCapri
Tech, Repairs, Upgrades => Capri XR-2 89-94 => Topic started by: SHOwn on October 17, 2015, 10:45:29 PM
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Well, the Redmobile III ran great today, doing errands, but I noticed on the way home when I opened my window at an ATM, she was making some strange clicking or tapping noises. Turns out, when I looked at it a little closer, the crank pulley for the AC was wobbling just a little, and the belts were cherping a little. Once I polled the splash shields off, I found two sheered off pulley bolts, and a third broke when I went to loosen it. Is this the dreaded short crank pulley issue? Is this the end of a great engine? Man, this is a nice car, I hope not.
BTW, that's a 21mm main harmonic bolt.
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Extracting the bolts is not a big issue. Finding out why it happened is your main concern. Did the last person not tighten the bolts properly?
You can read other threads. There was an issue with the earlier model Capris having a smaller crankshaft nose that cracked and sheared off. But that seems to me that would be the center bolt and possibly the whole balancer falling off. Worst case scenario is an engine swap. That looks like mechanic error and a chain of events with the bolts vibrating out.
Removing them bolts you need a good drill bit and extractor. They sell kits at the big name hardware stores by the drill bits. Use a center punch to start your hole and drill squared off straight into the bolt. If I remember correctly them bolts are only about a half inch long. They shouldn't be real hard to remove. Use some penetrating oil and soak them good.
If the extractor doesn't work don't panic yet. Step two is to drill out your hole a hair smaller than the base of the threads. The thread material will be remaining and will collapse easy for removal. You then chase your threads with a tap to clean them up for the new bolts. On the new bolts use thread lock and torque them down properly by the manual.
Hopefully the old bolts were just loose to begin with. The way the pulley shifted in the picture that's what looks like what happened. Either way you should pull the balancer to do the job. You can inspect the crankshaft at that time.
Since you are going that far you might want to consider changing the timing belt and water pump as you are halfway there. The hardest part of that job is pulling the harmonic balancer. Just a thought. The timing belt should be changed around 100,000 miles if it hasn't already. Maybe that's why the bolts were loose to begin with. Someone changed the timing belt and didn't tighten them bolts properly.
If you want a quickie fix you can drill/extract/tap as she sits but loosen your PS and alternator belts. Lowe's and Ace Hardware has a good bolt selection. They are metric. Use a grade 8 bolt or better. I'll look in the manual and see if I can find the size.
I had a similar issue with a cam gear. The last mechanic didn't tighten that bolt properly. It happens. Oreilly's has a good selection of loaner tools if you need them. So does Advance and AutoZone.
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E7GZ-6A345-A
Bolt - Hex.Head
Use with small shaft Crankshaft-approx. 22mm OD, BEFORE 10/1/90
Fit Note: 1.6L 4 Cyl
F1CZ-6A345-A
Bolt - Hex.Head
Use with large shaft Crankshaft-approx. 27.7mm OD, FROM 10/1/90
Fit Note: 1.6L 4 Cyl
Torque: 109-152 inch lbs.
Try to get one good bolt out for shopping. If not you can Google them part numbers.
Look in our parts forum. There are a couple members parting out their Capris. You might get them to send the bolts and possibly the pulley if the holes are egg shaped.
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Thanks for the replies Mitch! That info is helpful. Yes the car manufacture date is well past that, (5-91), and I'm thinking it has the long nose crank, but there are doubts since there are conflicting things written about some of this. I have the repair history from previous owners going back a long way, and the water pump & timing belt was put on at 87, 200 which was only 32k ago. However, the WP (or perhaps the lower hose to water pump clamp) leaks a dribble every week for a year and a half now. Maybe because it the temp sensor stopped working two winters ago and I blew a small turbo coolant hose. Nothing got hurt, I was two blocks from my destination and I got it towed home for repairs, but it took me a week in sub-zero temps to realize the sensor caused the hose to burst, so it kept getting a little too warm and overheating a little that week. The next weekend I replaced the sensor and t-stat and all has been good ever since, (except the dribble - a teaspoon a week).
Thanks for the info on tapping the holes. I have a metric tap kit, and have done some repairs previously with it, but I welcome more experienced user input! However, I think I'm going to have to go with bigger bolts if that is possible. I tried putting in another 10 in one of the holes and it is not big enough. I can see the threads if I look at it off-center and they are wallered out some from the way it came apart. I looked at the PDF for the engine section of the repair manual and I'm still not sure what is actually threaded, but I think it is the harmonic balancer.
BTW, I went to remove one of the two remaining bolts and with the slightest of pressure, it snapped off halfway down the bolt shaft. I might need a harmonic balancer if the holes are wallered out too much.
Rock Auto has a DMJ timing belt component set which includes everything - even the water pump and seals for $53. I just have to psyche myself to take this on right now. I'm not the mechanic my dad was, I was a bodyman!
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Wow, this is a confusing issue! I still have not touched it since breaking bolt #3. I had church and a nice family fall color tour scheduled today, and frankly, those come first. So I haven't done anything yet, but I'm going to go out to the garage and take the belt and pulley off.
After skimming the Miata forum page regarding the issue, I was thinking to not disturb the bolt or gear, but now that I carefully read it, I see he recommends a new bolt after all, so I guess I'll try to get one. I haven't decided if I'll pull the key yet. I am thinking to pull the bolt and if all is well, put it back together, but I haven't examined the pulley threads yet, so I might be pulling a gear from the boneyard. I know where one is, but maybe it is bad too!
I'll keep reporting. Maybe post another pic too.
Ron
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The gear should be okay. I remember reading a TSB on that center bolt. I'll see if I can't find it. I'm not sure what it said. I do remember they changed the torque. Probably because that small nose issue. Them four bolts don't have much torque. You might get by with loc-tite if the threads aren't chewed up.
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Really slow progress. Looks to me like this is a long nose crank? I will try to look at it when I get home tonight. If long nosed, the bolt holes should be in a rectangular pattern, if I remember Rocket's info corectly. If is is long, I have to get the main bolt off in order to take the timing belt off, and I'll have to get the stupid ez-out that I broke in one of the bolt stems out from the back side.
I'm struggling to remove the main crank bolt. My impact just rotates the crankshaft. I tried 5th gear but that did not help. I have the drivers side wheels on the ground and the passengers up right now. I will try lowering the right-rear and putting both fronts on ramps instead of my jack stands. Maybe 5th gear will offer enough resistance then, but I wonder if my clutch might be slipping a tad in this situation. It seems fine on the road, but I never try whole-shots!
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Supposedly the long nose crank can be ID'd by the 8 slot pulley.
Putting rope through the spark plug hole and jamming the piston always worked for me when removing the crank bolt.
There can be other issues with the long nose crank. The key and keyway is shared by the timing gear and the pulley assembly. The short nose crank had the pulleys and crankshaft damper connected to the timing gear. With all that weight and torque on one small key on a small area of the crank, wallowing occurred at the keyway and key, allowing the timing to change since the gear rotated to a new position.
The long nose crank has a longer keyway and a longer key. Without the heavy pulley/damper connected to the timing gear, there is really no chance for the timing gear portion of the key/keyway to get damaged.
That being said, I had a 93 na/ long nose, that had a wobbling pulley at the crank. It turned out that the key under the pulley/damper assembly had snapped in half. The crankshaft keyway under the pulley was damaged, wallowed out badly. This allowed the pulley to wobble a bunch, and the damper was toast. I considered building up the damaged keyway on the crank with some material, install a new key and damper, and go with it. I wound up junking the car. 170k miles on the car, I had other capris to drive, and couldnt in good consciousness sell an iffy-repaired car to anyone.
Hope you don't see damage to the crank when you get the bolt off...good luck...
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Didnt have time to read the whole thread - I'll come back and check it later. But i've had this happen a few times to me. B6T's and BP's that produce a lot of power tend to shear these bolts. They're also small, and can be over-tightened and stretched, which can make them snap easy.
The first time I drilled & tapped the holes oversize for 1/4"-20 hardware store bolts.
The second time the sheared bits came off clean.
In the future I plan on drilling out to M8x1.25 and installing studs, which seems better than a bolt for this application.
To remove that big nut, use a ratchet on the crank nose with a piece of pipe. (or a suitable breaker bar) make sure it rests against the chassis. Unplug the ignition coil. Quickly whack the key to engage the starter for a tenth of a second. This will break the main bolt free, but ya gotta be careful
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Now that you mention that I forgot how I broke my crank bolt loose, lol. I think since I was changing the timing set anyways I put a big wrench on that square spot on the cam and then used a big breaker bar. If you plan on reusing the belt it might stretch it out.
An impact should do wonders.
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Ok, things are looking up. I went with putting a ramp under the driver's side front wheel, and putting the passenger side front wheel back on and lowered onto another ramp. Then I put it into 5th gear, and cranked on it with my impact. I had to wait for the pressure to peak, and it didn't come off until I popped the Milton fitting and gave it a drop of pneumatic oil, but it did come off.
Better yet, the key, sprocket and crank are all pristine.
I still have one question. Although the Miata short crank webpage says you should replace the crank bolt, is it still possible? I can't find a thing when I Google the part number you provided. Does anyone still stock them?
(http://tnl.snapfish.com/assetrenderer/v2/productrenderer/original/SNAPFISH/B8jTHUNWJ2KEADOlwPwe7w/a/3DL7wTmqY18HWzFeqSEeUw/d/gaK2vSO3rPGPZ1Xhsiv48g/time/8uFz27JMLYlIfrKug880qg2015?height=960)
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Little more update and another question or two..
Went to the boneyard yesterday and today at lunch and pulled a harmonic balancer/pulley, a/c pulley, the bolt ring, the pulley boss, and the bolts that broke on my car. Joes in Spring Lake has 3 n/a's in mostly intact condition, and another 3 hulks in the corner of the Ford section.
I think I figured out what happened to my car when picking today. The previous mechanic who installed the last owner's timing belt put the bolt ring on the pulley boss first, then the harmonic, then the pulley and finally the bolts. The service manual seems to confuse this by not naming the bolt ring and showing the pretecessor to the pulley boss. The car I stripped at the yard had the bolt ring as the last part on before bolting. This would better clamp the layers of the pulleys together and resist flexing better. Actually, the confusion stems from the design change. The 91 service manual shows the short crank components, while the cars I worked on all have the long nose.
So, another question. Can I re-use the key? It's perfect. I don't know where to get another one new.
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If the key is perfect, I'd re-use it, although keys are a pretty standard hardware item, probably available at a well stocked hardware store... That's great news on the undamaged crank, you should be back on the road in no time...
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Reuse the main bolt too? Or are new ones actually available?
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This is the time for you to get the upgraded bolt and key. Get it from Mazda for an 88 323 GTX or GT or an early 91 Miata. When you have it apart change the front crank seal to stop that oil leak. Might even be the cam seals as well.
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I'll call Borgman Mazda tomorrow, they are supposed to be pretty good with old Mazdas. Maybe they can get the bolt. I'd like to put it together Saturday. My Rock Auto Gates water pump and Dayco timing belt kit came today with all gaskets, seals and the lube to install the seals. I can weld a bar onto the old pulley and I should be able to brace against it enough to torque it correctly.
I have enough to finish the job now, except I think I'll pick up some harder bolts for the pulleys, and if possible, get that new main bolt, and some gumption.
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Yeah change them seals while you are in there. I reused by bolt with no issues but a new one would be nice since that TSB recommends it.
Yesterday a guy asked me to jump him off. I think it was a 2001Mazda 3. Popped the hood and there is the same engine. The intake setup was different but everything else looked the same. 👀
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I can't believe you are having such time getting the crank bolt off. Impact takes that off no sweat,
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Ok, I got the water pump off last night, and since so many parts had to come off, I just kept going. I decided to pull the alternator and take it up the road to Adema alternator. They are great people there, doing things the old fashion way, pen and notepad, not even a computer in sight! But they rebuild my alternators to last, and cheaper than I can get one from the stores. I decided to rebuild it because it had 120K on it, and it's so hard to remove! It was working fine.
I stopped at Borgman Mazda and picked up my new long-nosed crank bolt, Mazda part #B3C7-11-406 (fits a 2001 Mazda 3 but looks identical to the 2 used Capri long-nosed bolts I have). I also went to the hardware store and picked up new Grade 10.9 M6x1.0 bolts for the harmonic balancer, and some thread locker blue.
I cleaned up everything and prepped for the water pump, but I have a question before I proceed. The Chinese made Gates water pump I bought looks great, but the instructions show what looks to be a Dodge Hemi, and there is no specific instructions to help with the Capri. I know how to put a water pump in, but I'm not sure about the O-ring that is included. It would seem to go on the Water Outlet which our lower radiator hose connects to, and has that rediculously stupid pipe joining it from behind the A/C compressor mount.
So, am I right in thinking that the O-ring is for that pipe to outlet joint?
If so, do I just twist and pull it off toward the passenger side?
And then, how on earth would I get the thing back together?
The Factory service manual is no help - it says "Remove water outlet".
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You'll see where the o ring goes when you get the pump off . Taking the bottom hose off helped, it's a tight fit in there.. you'll need a lot of patience if you've never done it before but it'll fall in place when you look it at , it's pretty straightforward. I made a wrench to make it a whole lot easier to get those 2 front bolts in and out too. Went to Harbor Freight and bought the offset wrench set , forget how many pieces, took the #12 wrench and Cut To A Total of 5 1/2" ...works like a dream and it makes taking in and out the thermostat housing tons easier too ! Still some feeling around and a whole lot of turning but at least you can get the job done a lot easier. Make sure to wire brush and clean all bolts and do not over tighten too. The cleaner it is down there the easier it will be. Good luck with it !
PS.. I also put a dab of dielectric grease on the o ring to make sure it didn't bind going in, just a dab. CLEAN all that stuff too.
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I played the PS and AC off to the side if you haven't already. It is so much easier dealing with them two bolts and the lower hose.
It wasn't long ago someone posted a replacement number from another vehicle that works for that hose. I meant to save it and didn't. It's a good time to change it. You're this close are you sure you don't need a head gasket? lol
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I' have the power steering pump and bracket off, and the a/c compressor too, she's stripped down except the cam pulleys. Now, I have the water pump off too, but the O-ring seal is Not visible.
It seems like it has to be between the bypass tube and the lower radiator hose outlet bell. Am I right about that?
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I think what you are talking about is the bypass gasket (o-ring) where that metal tube comes into play if I ain't mistaken. The gasket behind the pump is a round paper gasket with a tongue. The inlet gasket to the lower hose is also a paper gasket similar to a thermostat gasket.
There's a diagram in the engine section. Group 21 page 33. It also refers to Section 27-01 for the water pump which is not available for download that I know of. You might need the paper manual.
Here's an Aussie site for the Ford Capri but I get a failed download on my phone.??
http://www.capriconvertible.com/FORD-CAPRI-89-94-SA,SC,SE-CONVERTABLE/ENGINE/
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Looking at RockAuto/cooling/bypass gasket that's what it is. It goes on the hard pipe.
Different Mazda engine but similar setup with same part, top diagram, first illustration, 15-287
http://www.jimellismazdaparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=299544&ukey_product=1845659
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O-ring goes on the bypass pipe into the pump neck. That pipe just pulls out. You will need to check the flare on the end of that pipe. They are prone to decay which will hinder the seal when you reinstall it. Th b itch about that pipe is you will need to pull the turbo and manifold so replace it if it comes to that. Another trick is to remove the lower corner stud that holds that pipe in and replace it with a bolt..much easier on the install.
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Thanks to the both of you! That info is very hard to find. I thought I could just pull off the outlet since it seems to be free enough to twist off. But I didn't want to do anything without knowing. I figured that what you were talking about is true, it would be very difficult to replace the tube, so I don't want to hurt it. I have to believe the tube is solid, the coolant system is pretty solid, no corrosion or pitting in sight. I will have to replace the seal because I had a slow drip coming from somewhere close to there, so I don't want to go through all this work and still have the drip.
I will lube the seal when I slide the outlet back on, Mitch.
I hope this clears up any confusion for future readers.
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I can't remember how I did it, lol. It's been 2 years ago but it's slowly coming back. I think I loosened the pipe. The one nut at the right side of the manifold and the nut on the back side by the ground block. Be careful not to damage the hoses on the rear side off the pipe. Inspect them for leaks when you are done.
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Wait, now I'm confused again. You guys talk about loosening more bolts. Can't I just pull that outlet off the bypass pipe toward the right fender (left in the pic) and it will pop off harmlessly?
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You might, I forget. For some reason that manifold nut brings back memories. Maybe it was a thermostat change the pipe is in the way.
You'll know when you get there. Isn't the pipe exposed with the water pump off?
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The pipe is the one shown in the last pic I posted, with the two 90 degree bends under the power steering pump bracket (removed). It apparently has the O-ring on it where it inserts into the water pump outlet casting protruding to the right in the pic. I'm thinking I can just twist and pull the outlet casting to the left in the pic and it should come off, no bolts involved. There is a decent amount of flexibility in the connection with the pump off, leading me to realize the it is probably only the O-ring holding this together.
Sorry to drag this out! I'm overthinking this because I'm waiting on delivery of the lower radiator hose and front trans mount.
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Yes the outlet will pull off..twist and pull. I was saying that when you get the outlet off, check the flare on the bypass pipe and check for decay. If...you need to replace the pipe you will need to remove the manifold and turbo. My suggestion to the lower corner manifold stud is to replace it with a bolt. I have done that to every B series I have had. I got real tired of having to bend and pry the mounting ear on the pipe.
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Gotcha. I hope and pray it doesn't come to that!
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Prayers answered! The bypass is in great shape!
I have one more question. Is it possible to torque the cam sprockets without using the camshaft flats? I just replaced my valve cover gasket 3 weeks before the crank pulley loosened up and I don't want to take it apart again.
I don't believe my cam seals leak much, if anything, but I have new cam seals with the timing belt kit and I was thinking to,put them on, but I'm not sure I can adequately brace the cam sprockets with a channel lock to one of the spokes. That puts the resistance of the torquing all on the key way assembly instead of the camshaft body.
Anyone ever done it this way?
I'll just leave well enough alone and leave the old seals intact if this is a bad idea.
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How happy will you be when those old cam seals start leaking after you put it all back together. My God man do it right the first time. You need to hold the cams while torquing the sprocket nuts and you will need to hold them both when installing the belt and lining up the marks. Complete timing kit 125.00, time and labor and not to mention the frustration 500.00, replacing a 20.00 cover seal to to the damn job right....priceless. All depends on how you take I told you so's I guess.
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http://www.miata.net/garage/holdcams.jpg This is how I held mine .
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Yeah it's not a big deal changing cam seals. Just a thing you need to do.
To get involved with restoring old vehicles you have to love working on them. Cam seals is just one more challenge. That's why I mentioned the head gasket earlier. No sense going back and turning bolts you turned before. But to each his own. 😊
I put my wrench on the cam square and rotated it until It rest on the head. Let the head hold it.
Pappy got a great idea. I'll have to remember that.
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http://www.miata.net/garage/holdcams.jpg This is how I held mine .
That's a great idea.
When I replaced my cam sprockets and timing belt, I didn’t take the valve cover off. I just used a deep walled socket and an extension through the cams spokes onto the bolts behind the cam to stop it from turning while tightening the retaining bolt and to position the cam for the new belt.
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Thanks Chris, that's exactly what I was looking for. I did take the sprockets off and change the the cam seals. It was a good thing I did. When I went to loosen the intake sprocket, it wasn't torqued, but not loose yet. It did have some kind of thread locker on there, so it wasn't going to come apart, but it could have loosened up enough for the pin to come out of the slot and the valves to stop functioning. And even though there was no leakage with the old seals, I replaced them.
I cleaned up everything, gave the brackets and pulleys a coat of paint, and reassembled it all Saturday night. So much for that extra hour of sleep, I finished at 6 am and that's after the time change!
The shiny alternator is the original one rebuilt by our local shop, Adema Alternator in Coopersville. It was another good move to bring it in along with the 94 alternator I had in my parts trove in for service. It turned out that something wasn't quite right with the voltage regulator, so they tested the 94 and reused its regulator to rebuild mine.
All is well, no leaks, no wobbles or vibrations. I had to trim off almost 2" of the new lower radiator hose due to the excess length buckling at the lowest bend. The replacement front motor mount prooved to be the cure for the hoppy-jumpy clutch release I would get sometimes, for the last 30k! Mmm, smooth!
Thanks again to all who talked this retired body man off the ledge!
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Oh, and here's my tip for those replacing a pulley with wallered out bolt holes. Don't throw it away, mount it to the pulley boss nice and tight so you can use it with vice grips to one of the slots, and another vice grip to the first with a pipe extension to secure the crankshaft while tightening the main bolt. Once the main bolt is torqued, replace the pulley with your new junkyard one, and use brand new 10.9 hardness bolts with locktite to secure the "new" pulley.
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