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Author Topic: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod  (Read 52884 times)

greywolf27030

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #330 on: October 10, 2022, 08:20:32 AM »

Sounds like you have a real boondoggle there. You might check around for a local place that rebuilds alternators/starters. Locally I take mine by and pick it up a couple of days later fixed. If you have to get one at the parts store, just exchange the pulleys if they are different. Good luck on getting the spaghetti untangled.
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Jack Byrd

EShepherd

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    • 1991 Capri XR2, 1991 Capri XR2 Rusted out Shell
Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #331 on: October 12, 2022, 08:21:17 AM »

Soooo the relay the parts store got me was the wrong relay. Surprise, Autozone strikes again! I even brought them the bad relay, which has four pins....and still ended up with a (non-refundable) 5-pin relay. Stellar. I overnighted what should (hopefully) be the correct relay from Rock Auto. Knowing them, it'll both be correct, and in my hands some time tomorrow. I have high hopes this fixes my no start.

Want to know why? I pulled the relay out of the car, and jumped power to the two coil ends with my power probe. I had to jump power to it several times before I heard the switch click. It did so maybe twice, and then I didn't hear it return to open. I tossed it back in the car, and as soon as I turn the key to anything but "off", it now cranks. I suspect I had a stuck open switch in that relay, which I have now managed to get stuck closed.

My big hope is that there are no additional issues beyond this one, at least as far as getting the engine running. You know, I distinctly remember saying that ... oh I dunno ... about seven times now. I'm truly running out of parts to load into the parts cannon at this point. Clutch switch? Ignition switch? ECU (fml)? Idk
« Last Edit: October 12, 2022, 08:23:12 AM by EShepherd »
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greywolf27030

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #332 on: October 12, 2022, 09:35:53 AM »

I feel your pain. My '93 has been one thing after the other.  Keep up the good work.
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Jack Byrd

EShepherd

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #333 on: October 13, 2022, 07:26:19 PM »

I feel your pain. My '93 has been one thing after the other.  Keep up the good work.

It's a huge hit to my ego, as a professional mechanic, that this thing still isn't running. I'm seriously at the point where if it comes down to it, I'll re-wire the whole damned thing and put some sort of stand-alone ECU in it. I think the car is just trying -really- hard to tell me that's what it wants.

On that note, Rock Auto came in clutch. Got my (correct) relay today. Was waiting for me when I got home from work. Tossed her in the car. Did the whole battery and jump box routine. Hit the key. Whole lotta nothing. *sigh*

I'm leaving for vacation in a couple days. When I get back, I'll make the time to continue the diagnosis. I really am running out of potential bad parts. I know from the wiring diagram there are two ignition relays. I did replace the four pin one under the steering wheel. Haven't had the time to locate the other one on the vehicle. If it happens to be a 5 pin relay, and anyone knows where it goes, that'd save me some time. I already have it, may as well use it.
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greywolf27030

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #334 on: October 15, 2022, 07:18:39 AM »

Good luck and have a good vacation.
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Jack Byrd

EShepherd

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #335 on: October 24, 2022, 05:21:54 AM »

Good luck and have a good vacation.

Thanks man! It was a really fantastic trip, and so very needed. Anyways, I used some of the abundant free time I had to figure out a game plan for my Capri. Here's what I've come up with:

I've been hesitant to spend any money on this build, because I have literally never seen this engine run before. Not before I rebuilt it, nor after. Well, I realized that I can at least do a compression test (and leak-down, if need be), since I can force it to crank. So, that's #1 on my list of things to do. If I end up finding an issue, and it ends up needing the block to come back out, then I'm probably going to tap out. I hate to admit it, but it is what it is. I'd probably just give the whole car back to Matt, honestly. I have my eye on a '69 Skylark that's screaming for an LS swap. I'd have bought it by now, if my free time weren't already devoted to the Capri. Fun fact, the Skylark I want to buy is the same exact one I used to tow the red Capri chassis from Matt's shop to my old house.

HOWEVER, if I do the compression test, and everything looks promising. Well, I'll probably test as many other potentially fatal issues as I can; pressurize the cooling system, check fuel pressure, whatever I can think of. If I really can't convince myself I'm staring down the barrel of more YEARS before I can drive the Capri, then I'll go all in. I'll order the brakes and wheel bearings and axles and starter and alternator and battery - at a minimum. I already know I need all of that (except the starter, but I'm going to abuse the current one even more testing the engine compression lol). That should keep me busy for a while, and rule out all the crap I already know is wrong with the car. That'll leave one ignition relay, the ignition switch, and some wiring - as far as I'm aware, that's all that is left of my starting circuit that I haven't poked at yet.

Then, if I do end up giving up at that  point, someone will end up with a car that has a brand new everything, with a fresh rebuild on the engine, that doesn't crank. That would at least be a fun starting point for a project *coughmegasquirtcough*. Just don't let the Festiva guys pick at the remains of my project, if it comes down to that, please. 
« Last Edit: October 24, 2022, 05:26:23 AM by EShepherd »
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greywolf27030

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #336 on: October 24, 2022, 06:58:50 AM »

As much B, S, and T's as you have in this build, not to mention the money, I hope you can get it worked out.
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Jack Byrd

Rocketman

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #337 on: October 24, 2022, 01:22:10 PM »

On a fresh rebuild you're not going to see good compression numbers, unfortunately. Things have to break in

Give me a call when you have a bit of time, we'll run over what you've checked and I'll give whatever advice I can
I wish I had time, I'd run up and spend an afternoon troubleshooting with you

Don't be discouraged, you're doing awesome work, ride the rollercoaster - it will be worth it in the end
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1.8L Turbo All Wheel Drive Capri... the "GTXR2"


EShepherd

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #338 on: October 26, 2022, 05:17:26 AM »

On a fresh rebuild you're not going to see good compression numbers, unfortunately. Things have to break in

Give me a call when you have a bit of time, we'll run over what you've checked and I'll give whatever advice I can
I wish I had time, I'd run up and spend an afternoon troubleshooting with you

Don't be discouraged, you're doing awesome work, ride the rollercoaster - it will be worth it in the end

I know the compression will be a bit off, since the rings haven't seated and everything yet. I'm more so looking to make sure I don't have something like 110-110-5-110 going on. I'm gonna be an unhappy man if the thing finally turns over, and has a dead cylinder or similar.

I'll definitely call at some point this weekend. I'm planning on spending Saturday troubleshooting her some more. Thanks for the offer!
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EShepherd

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #339 on: October 29, 2022, 06:16:34 AM »

Hey Matt, I figured I'd just update you here on the car, rather than calling later. I keep forgetting to bring tools home on the weekends, so no compression numbers or anything like that. So, as far as my no crank and no start. When I turn the key to "On", I get life. Headlights, windows, radio, blower motor, etc. all will work. When I turn the key to start, everything shuts off momentarily, until I release the key back to start. There is no clunk/knock/whatever noise you want to call it, from the starter. She isn't trying to engage. However, when I was playing with one of the ignition relays a couple weeks back, I got a change. The one in the fuse box that'd be by your left knee if you are driving. I believe it is called "Ignition Relay 2" in the service manual. I figured out that it was stuck open, then I managed to get it to stick closed. With the stuck closed relay, as soon as the key is put in the ignition, it cranks.

This all happened briefly before I left for vacation, so I haven't had an opportunity (until later today) to explore the new information this has provided me. So what can I tell now? It would appear my starter circuit works. I can clearly get power from the battery to the starter, using only existing wiring. It also appears likely that my ignition switch is good. It does things when I turn the key to different spots, at least. Furthermore, and this is the big one, it looks like if I can figure out what all is supposed to happen when I turn the key, to make the switch in ignition relay 2 close, I should be able to at least get the car to crank.

So things I need to check today:
1. What sends power to that relay, and where does it go from there.
2. Does my fuel pump even work? Haven't heard it prime, as I don't think I've gotten close enough to starting the car to get power to it
3. Am I getting power to my ECU? Am I seeing inputs to it, and outputs from it?

I think if I can answer those questions, I'll be a big step closer to having a running car.
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greywolf27030

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #340 on: October 29, 2022, 08:52:03 AM »

The fuel pump is activated by airflow thru the MAF. There is a unplugged yellow connector on the passenger side. You can jump the two connectors to bypass the MAF and allow the pump to work on its own.
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Jack Byrd

EShepherd

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #341 on: October 29, 2022, 09:09:28 AM »

The fuel pump is activated by airflow thru the MAF. There is a unplugged yellow connector on the passenger side. You can jump the two connectors to bypass the MAF and allow the pump to work on its own.

That'd be the single loose connector on the VAF, correct? What do I jump this to in order to power the fuel pump? 12v, I'd assume? Thanks for the info. I knew that was a test connector, I was just unaware of what it was for testing. Likewise, I know there are a few test connectors on the engine side of the firewall, on the passenger side just past where it comes through the bulk head. They are in the area of the baro sensor, overboost sensor, etc. Any idea what these of for? I just know the service manual calls them "test connectors".

Also, I'm studying the wiring diagram on tech capri for the starting system. It looks like from the ignition switch to the clutch pedal position switch is a black/green wire, and then on the other end of the clutch switch is a black and yellow wire. From there it goes through multiple connectors, as well as switches from a black wire to a black/red wire. Eventually, this becomes the black and red wire that eventually branches to both the starter motor and the ECM. I'm planning on going out to the car and pulling out this whole leg of the circuit. I'm pretty sure I can test the clutch switch just checking resistance. As long as I have continuity with the pedal depressed, the switch should be good. It's all those little connectors after the clutch switch I'm worried about. I know I saw a few un-plugged connectors buried up behind the interior fuse box under the dash. If I'm not getting a good signal through this single wire, then the ignition switch will never tell the car to start. Even more promising, depending on where in this circuit the funky relay I have is, I could be bypassing the open in the circuit with the stuck closed relay.  I think I'm on the right path.

So the thing is, my hands and wrist are not able to work in the space where those unplugged connectors are. How hard is it to pull the dash on one of these? Without a saw-zall. I got the last one out in like 10 minutes guys. This one needs to go back in though. Ideally without rattling.
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EShepherd

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #342 on: October 29, 2022, 04:48:32 PM »

I still can't reach those two connectors at the back of the interior fuse box. They look like they plug into the back of it, but I can't see worth a damn up there. Blindly attempting to plug them into where it looks like they should go has thus far proven unsucessful.

In other news, I witnessed the slow death of my clutch switch. Hooked up my DMM, got OL. Cool. Pressed the switch and it swept to 0.4 ohms. Cool. Did it again, and it made it to about 50 ohms. A few more times with nothing. Then a few times it registered in the megaohms, before giving it up completely. So I need a clutch switch. The connector it plugs into is blackened and burned. Not sure what that's about, but it makes me weary to go with my gut and shove a jumper wire in there to bypass the switch. Could I not just wire in a "kill switch" here and press it when I start the car?
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EShepherd

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #343 on: October 30, 2022, 06:14:19 PM »

Gonna be super brief right now, used up literally every spare free second I had.

Talked to Rocketman on the phone for a while today. We got the car cranking with the key! There is a fresh battery and 4 gallons of fresh gas in it. I verified both fuel and spark. Super duper close, guys! It may just be flooded. I'm gonna let it sit for a couple days while I wait for my next few free minutes. Maybe double check all my vacuum hoses and fluids one last time. I didn't expect it to actually crank so soon, there may be stuff I had left un-hooked from testing.
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greywolf27030

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Re: '91 Capri XR-2 Resto-Mod
« Reply #344 on: October 31, 2022, 05:48:04 AM »

Good luck!
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Jack Byrd
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