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[shep83]

 >:(Hi..
My Capri wouldn't start this morning to go to work. I was following a thread about checking the fuel system but it ended without resolution!?!?!?
Pump runs..
I have fuel out of filter..
Fires when primed...

What about Fuel pressure regulator??

[shep83]

Come on guys, give me something.

I'm leaning toward replacing ECM...
I have the rail off enough to see the injectors and I'm about to test, soon as I get my daughter out there to turn the key

[Rocketman]

Do you have tach signal (tach bounces?) Do you have spark? Just trying to rule out an ignitor issue

You say it runs when primed, but not otherwise? Sounds like bad gas, or a vacuum leak behind the VAF. Make sure all the intake connections are super secure, no loose hoses, and nothing is cracked

Don't try running the injectors like that, it's asking for an trouble If the engine fires, it will draw air in through the injector ports and redline instantly. Or cause a fire. Unsecured, those injectors will fire right out of the fuel rail.

[shep83]

  Hey thanks for answering, I got that idea from one of your old posts...
I got nothing out of the injectors though..

Definately not the gas it was running fine the night before but it's been hard starting since I had it.
That's kind of why I'm leaning toward the ECM.
Is there anything else that can make the injectors not work??

I found an old discussion about this same issue but the guy never said what worked.
I saw in another post something about a wire that can get bare and short but I don't see any single wires...
Do you have any idea what this refers to??

Thanks again..

[shep83]

Just to clarify, it fires when I spray fuel into the throttle body, it hasn't actually run all day..

[blueamber]

The injectors work by the ECU supplying a ground to each injector (actually pair of injectors, but that doesn't matter).  The injector must get voltage to work, and that is supplied constantly by the Main relay, behind the driver side headlight bucket.  Voltage through that relay is sourced by the EGI fuse under the hood.  What turns the Main relay on is the ignition switch through the Engine fuse, under the dash.

So, if the Main relay doesn't turn on, or voltage for another reason doesn't get to the injectors, no run.

1) Check the EGI fuse under the hood, 30 Amp.  This supplies injector and air bag power.
2) Check any injector wire (black wire with white stripe) with ignition on, should read 12 volts.
If both these check out ok, then you have another problem...timing?...timing belt???...

In  my case, I had a bad wire from the bottom of the fuse box to the Main relay.  It is the black wire from under the fuse box, there is a connector there that had a corroded black wire connection I had to jumper to make my injectors work...Chris

[Chicken]

^^^ Good info to consider.

How well does the car run when it does run, is there smoke, smooth idle, performance under load, has the filter been checked, bought bad gas at some time, old gas, hows inside the tank look???

[shep83]

That's the wire I was looking for. thanks I'll check that.
The little car ran great until it didn't, the only real indicator I got was hard starting.
No smoke, I'm in South Florida so we have moisture issues down here but usually that causes some poor performance

Anybody have a good test for that relay?? like which prongs do I touch the red and black thingies on to see if there is continuity???

[blueamber]

Testing just the relay is tricky, best is to narrow down what is wrong with the relay installed.

Best way to test is measure that black wire with the white stripe that goes from the relay to the injectors.  There is a technique to use that can be carefully used.  Take a straight pin and pierce that wire, being careful not to let it touch any body part.  Turn on the key, and you should  read 12 volts or so from that pin to negative, the battery neg or chassis.  Remove the pin afterwards and tape up that hole in the wire to keep moisture out.

If you got 12 volts then the problem is something else.

If no 12 volts, check the blue wire going into the relay.  This should be 12 volts all the time.
If not, then voltage is not getting from the fuse to the relay/
If there is 12 volts, then the relay could be bad, probably is...Chris

[shep83]

$@@$&!!$ CAR 

OK,
Fuel pressure is a steady 30 PSI (jumpered with key on)
12 volts at the injector (needle test @ injector)
Fires when I spray gas into intake..
No gas is coming out of injectors!!!!

I've read this similar problem in the archives several times but there is never a final solution..

Anybody got anymore ideas??

[blueamber]

Sounds like the ECU then.  There's writeups around here on how best to pull it, you can test operation without completely installing the replacement, just plug it in and let it dangle... there is a slight possibility that timing is way off for some reason, if the plugs fire after an exhaust stroke, there's nothing there to ignite, but flooding the piston with starter fluid gives it something to burn...

Does anyone out there know if a broken timing belt could show his symptoms?  (The timing belt IS still there, right?)...Chris

[Rocketman]

Can you confirm that your tach gauge bounces when you try to start the car?
Have you tested for spark @ the plugs? Lack of these two could be a bad ground, a burned ignitor, broken timing belt

Very easy to test these

[shep83]

Unfortunately it's a automatic, no tach guage..

I haven't pulled a plug and checked the actual spark, I wrote that off when I got fire by priming the air intake.

I will check spark tonight, but I am 100% certain that my injectors are not firing and I'm 99% sure they are getting power.

The power though was constant, so what controls the firing?
Does this signal come from the PCM or is there another thing that tells the injectors when to squirt??

Also are the ECM, PCM, ECU all the same things or am I totally misunderstanding something..

[Rocketman]

ECM/PCM/ECU are all the same thing. There is a position sensor inside the distributor that tells the spark when to fire, and the ECU uses this signal to fire the injectors.

If you are getting 30 PSI at the rail, that is too low. If I remember right it should be 45psi give or take ~5psi with normal vacuum on the FPR, and 50+psi when there's no vacuum applied

No tachometer? All the Capri gauge clusters are the same (sans boost gauge for the turbo, 94 had a grey backer), it should have one. Even the XR2's (never automatic) still got the MANUAL SHIFT and POWER MODE light that the autos have, they're just not wired into anything

[shep83]

Thanks for clarifying the ecm,pcm,ecu thing.
I thought they were all the same thing but you never know..

I will check the gauges when I get home, I guess I just never paid any attention to the tach...

Do you think it could be the fuel pump have been slowly losing power and it now at a point where the pressure is to low to fire the injectors???