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Author Topic: Radiator Fan  (Read 9315 times)

CapriManxr2

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    • 1991 Capri XR2
Radiator Fan
« on: March 25, 2023, 01:59:32 PM »

My fan never turns on ever since I installed a new 3 row aluminum radiator. When I turn the key to the ignition switch, the fan turns half a spin maybe less, but never spins anymore. I drove it and it got to almost 250 degrees on the gauge, I know not to trust these gauged but that was slightly concerning. I can feel the fan switch click and seems to be working, how do I really know what the problem is with the fan? Another thing, when I installed the new Bosch diverter valve, the car felt SUPER slow. It is really hard to get it up my drive way and it's really hard to accelerate but once the turbo hits it seems to go away. I've tried flip flopping the orientation but still no luck, and it feels the same with the old BPV as well. When i am accelerating without the turbo (1,000-2,750rpm) the car feels like its rocking back and forth, like it's lagging or stuttering but pretty subtle. Any help is appreciated!
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CapriManxr2

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    • 1991 Capri XR2
Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2023, 07:59:10 PM »

Update: I was able to get the fan to spin by bypassing the switch and jumping it, it span and sounded healthy. So it must be a sensor or the switch itself. About the other problem, where my car ran slow. Well, now it doesn't run at all, I got back from work and tried to start it and it cranked and wanted it to start, even got a couple of the cylinders to fire up but VERY quickly died out. I looked in the engine bay and it smelled slightly like gas, and there was smoke or vapor coming from the firewall by the fuel filter. could the car running slow just be the fuel system and coincidentally happened when I installed the new diverter valve? I am quite lost at this point because the problems seem to just start adding up by the day. Whenever I try to crank the engine, there is a clunk sound or like a clank when the starter disengages.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2023, 05:36:56 AM by CapriManxr2 »
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CapriManxr2

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Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2023, 08:30:45 AM »

Update #3 lol: after putting all of the fan plugins back together the fan started spinning immediately after Turning the key to ignition and didn't stop (witch I'm okay with because it runs hot). and the problem with the cafr not starting wasn't fuel because I undid the bolt at the end of the fuel rail and had a buddy crank it and gas came out with pretty good pressure. After all of that testing, I put the intake back together and this time the car fired right up. the throttle response is still super slow though, when I had it sitting in my garage after letting it warm up, I gave it some revs and it felt like the throttle was only open 1/4 of the way, it felt SUPER spongey. I checked the throttle body and the throttle pedal when pushed all the way opens the butterfly all the way so it's getting air fuel and spark (I just did spark plug and wires a few months ago). Even when I floored it to get the revs up it when up very slowly, like theres something restricting it for holding it back. I'm thinking it's Throttle Positon Sensor or some sort of other sensor. Any one out there that has had the similar issue? Any help is appeciated!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2023, 08:32:29 AM by CapriManxr2 »
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CapriManxr2

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    • 1991 Capri XR2
Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2023, 01:14:57 PM »

Alright, did some research on the TPS and I'll try adjusting it a little to get it to idle more comfortably. currently the idle is at ~500rpm and the normal idle for my car is ~900. I found online how to test the sensor and they say to run the car and let it warm up and then pull the plug to the sensor. I did just that and the RPMs fell ~150 so the sensor seems to be working (Maybe) so I'll try turning it and adjusting from what I saw in a video.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2023, 01:54:59 PM by CapriManxr2 »
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CapriManxr2

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    • 1991 Capri XR2
Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2023, 01:52:52 PM »

Nevermind, I talked to my grandpa (he's more familiar with older cars) and he said it is my sensor. He said to check vacuum lines to make sure nothing is leaking. But from another video I saw on YouTube to said that a change of RPMs when unplugging the sensor means it's functional? Another thing, the radiator fan doesn't automatically kick in anymore? It did before but it's back to what it was doing before, just doing a half spin when the key goes to the ignition switch. I'm just looking for a second opinion on these problems, any help is greatly appreciated, want to get this back on the road for when it starts to warm up.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2023, 01:54:34 PM by CapriManxr2 »
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CapriManxr2

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    • 1991 Capri XR2
Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2023, 11:02:51 PM »

Anyone have any input on the horrible throttle response? Which sensor do yall think it is? I figured out the radiator fan issue, my temp sensor plug in was hardly connected so I tightened up the connection and now the fan spins. But the car doesn't rev AT ALL, like it is in limp mode or something.
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Rocketman

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Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2023, 03:52:50 AM »

Okay so first off, the YT videos aren't really going to help for this car, unplugging a sensor should not affect the idle. That might be the case for newer OBDII cars but not so much with these relics. Standard idle should be 850-950 RPM. Check for vacuum leaks/other issues before attempting to adjust idle, particularly if it idled properly before.

I would recommend attempting to pull codes from the car, you need to jumper a plug under the hood and then count the flashes on the check engine light when you turn the key to run. This can be done with a paperclip.
Start there, see what the ECU might have to say about things.

It certainly does sound like you have a vacuum or boost leak, that may or may not be related to the new bypass valve. Any leaks behind the VAF meter will cause it to run very poorly. Vacuum line disconnected, split intercooler hose, etc. If you have access to a smoke machine or other method of leak testing that would be helpful.

Regarding the fan:
There are three temperature sensors on the engine. One for the ECU, one for the dash, one that controls the fan. The one that controls the fan is on the t-stat housing. Disconnecting it should immediately turn on the fan. Be wary of running the fan non-stop: I did this on one of my capris and it blew the fuse, leading to an overheat condition. 400 miles from home. That was an exciting weekend

Do you have access to a timing light? It would be good to verify that the static timing advance (done by rotating the distributor) is within spec. This could cause trouble with idle. Did you change this while changing the bypass valve?
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greywolf27030

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Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2023, 08:28:22 AM »

Always listen to him......
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Jack Byrd

CapriManxr2

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Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2023, 09:04:41 AM »

When I did the bypass valve I didn’t touch anything else, one thing is when I did the radiator, there was this tube with this weird white hose that went to a secondary radiator that is in between the main one and the Intercooler. When I installed the new radiator, I had to pull it away and I pulled pretty hard, but I don’t think I broke anything. I will rent a smoke machine and run a test for leaks, I’ve been meaning to do it anyway. Which plugs do I jump to check codes? I’m sure it’s on the forums, so I’ll look around too. Thanks for the help, I can’t wait to get it back on the road.

Edit: Found out how to check for codes, will do this when I get home. Is there a list that shows what the different flashes mean? There was a link on another post but when I clicked on it, it reads page not found. I don't have access to a timing light, but I never ended up adjusting the idle or distributor timing, I'm not too familiar with advancing or adjusting the timing in general so I figured that'd be the last-case scenario.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 10:15:52 AM by CapriManxr2 »
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CapriManxr2

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Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2023, 04:37:30 PM »

alright, I jumped that single green terminal and the check engine light flashed. It flashed 8 short then 2 long and then two short. Any idea what that means?
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Rocketman

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Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2023, 04:16:53 AM »

Here's a shortlist of codes that used to be on the TeamCapri home page, they got lost during the website transition:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180322170343/http://www.teamcapri.com/howtos/cartroublecodes.html

Here's a PDF scan of the FSM on TechCapri:
https://www.techcapri.com/ServiceManuals/PCM/Capri_PCM_EEC_Quick_Test_Procedures_S05B.pdf

The relevant section is 5B-38 & 39

Based on your results you are seeing a code 8 and code 2

Code 8 is VAF signal, which would definitely cause issues you're reporting.
Code 2 is Camshaft position? sensor which could be something in the distributor. I wouldn't worry about that one at the moment

Double check the procedures and your flashes to make sure the codes match up, www.techcapri.com has some good FSM data to troubleshoot
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Rocketman

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Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2023, 04:21:32 AM »

Did you unplug the VAF, or undo any of the screws on the VAF connector at any point? I have heard of pins in the connector being bent and not making contact
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CapriManxr2

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    • 1991 Capri XR2
Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2023, 08:39:41 AM »

I was looking at the MAF and all the pins make contact. There was this new noise that I couldn’t figure out and it was like a loud CLINK whenever the engine shut off. This came from the little door inside the MAF housing that opens with more airflow just slamming shut when the engine turns off. So I should get a new MAF from eBay? I’ll look at the FSM and see what I can do, I’ll also clean it out with MAF cleaner the best I can and see if I can fix this. I have unplugged the MAF MANY times because I undo the intake often to reach things that are below it like the bpv and the thermostat, maybe some of the wires are bad? I’ll look at the FSM to see how to test the VAF. What are the symptoms of a bad camshaft position sensor? Ever since I got the car it’ll have times in low RPM where the engine cuts a little and the CEL comes on, there is no boost when this happens because it is in the low RPM. Anywho, I’ll look into this see what I can do. Thanks for the help rocketman.
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CapriManxr2

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Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2023, 09:26:43 AM »

I was looking at the code list and there is a code that is 82, and that is fan shorted to ground. That is what I did to the fan so it could always run and never overheat, could this be the code also? I see it also says that the code is for a 2.3L engine though so probably not and it's probably just a coincidence. I will test the VAF when I get home, found out how to test and found the voltage graph, I also conveniently just found a junkyard capri near me to pull some of the sensors off of it, but it's N/A. How interchangeable are the N/A parts? Are the oxygen, throttle position, and MAF sensors interchangeable? Again, thanks so much for all the help, this forum is a lifesaver and I thank all of you helping me out.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 10:28:30 AM by CapriManxr2 »
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EShepherd

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    • 1991 Capri XR2, 1991 Capri XR2 Rusted out Shell
Re: Radiator Fan
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2023, 06:46:52 PM »

I was looking at the code list and there is a code that is 82, and that is fan shorted to ground. That is what I did to the fan so it could always run and never overheat, could this be the code also? I see it also says that the code is for a 2.3L engine though so probably not and it's probably just a coincidence. I will test the VAF when I get home, found out how to test and found the voltage graph, I also conveniently just found a junkyard capri near me to pull some of the sensors off of it, but it's N/A. How interchangeable are the N/A parts? Are the oxygen, throttle position, and MAF sensors interchangeable? Again, thanks so much for all the help, this forum is a lifesaver and I thank all of you helping me out.

I know for a fact the VAF assemblies are different part numbers between the NA and the XR2, so you won't be able to swap that. The oxygen sensors and TP sensors are likely the same part. The O2 sensor is easily available from the aftermarket for cheap, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. The TP sensor is one I haven't come across, so I'd definitely steal that off the junkyard car just to have.

As far as the situation with the fan....well whatever you did was a bad idea honestly. With the fans running constantly, the vehicle is going to take a significantly longer time to reach operating temperature (and closed loop idle). None of that is great for the car, but now also we have no idea what you did to the wiring harness to make the fans stay on. The cooling fan is one of the highest amperage circuits (if not the highest) on the car, having that pull full voltage constantly was definitely not the best idea for a 30+ year old wiring harness.

Have you un-done whatever you did to the fan circuit? I'd be interested in looking at the wiring diagram and seeing if there are any shared wires between the fan, fan relay, VAF, and ELC.
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