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Author Topic: Rear Brake Upgrade  (Read 2648 times)

Original_Owner

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    • 1991 XR2
Rear Brake Upgrade
« on: March 06, 2023, 01:02:51 PM »

I was planning on making it an open source upgrade anyway. Its not nearly fully developed, still has a ways to go, basically it is the following:

Hub - 65 Mustang 6 Cyl front drum hub - C3DZ-1107-HUB - has a 4x4.5 pattern.
Disc/Caliper - 2005 Nissan Sentra, various rear sizes up to 10.94" (SE-R Spec V) - 4x4.5 pattern.
Parking brake cable - TBD.
Uses the stock Capri inner bearing and 65 Mustang outer bearing. Custom caliper bracket and spacers.

Slightly concerned about having a "mushy" pedal especially with upgraded front calipers. Again not fully sorted, so if someone else wants to try, here is a possible path.

Updated...Spacers are not custom, these are off off the shelf as well, only caliper bracket is custom. Does anyone know of a larger bore master cylinder that will bolt up?

« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 01:51:13 PM by Original_Owner »
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greywolf27030

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    • 1991 XR2, 1992 XR2, 1993 XR2
Re: Rear Brake Upgrade
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2023, 08:30:37 AM »

WOW......good luck.
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Jack Byrd

EShepherd

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    • 1991 Capri XR2, 1991 Capri XR2 Rusted out Shell
Re: Rear Brake Upgrade
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2023, 05:22:38 AM »

WOW......good luck.

So I see the hub can be had for $100. Idk if I've mentioned here, but I work for Nissan and can get my hands on basically any OEM parts for cost. If you wanna send me some pictures of what you've figured out so far, maybe I can grab some parts and see if I can't work on it too. The fact that our rear calipers are un-obtainium has me super nervous, as a 32 year old brake caliper just feels like a recipe for disaster. Someone needs to figure out a rear end swap for the Capri soon, or we are all going to end up with no rear brakes.  :-X
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greywolf27030

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    • 1991 XR2, 1992 XR2, 1993 XR2
Re: Rear Brake Upgrade
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2023, 09:10:55 AM »

WOW......good luck.

So I see the hub can be had for $100. Idk if I've mentioned here, but I work for Nissan and can get my hands on basically any OEM parts for cost. If you wanna send me some pictures of what you've figured out so far, maybe I can grab some parts and see if I can't work on it too. The fact that our rear calipers are un-obtainium has me super nervous, as a 32 year old brake caliper just feels like a recipe for disaster. Someone needs to figure out a rear end swap for the Capri soon, or we are all going to end up with no rear brakes.  :-X

For the time being, you can take your calipers to Advance Auto and they will send it to Cardone for rebuild. Price is reasonale and takes about 10 days.
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Jack Byrd

chrispoe

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Re: Rear Brake Upgrade
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2023, 05:24:10 AM »

I found your proposed rear brake upgrade using the 65 V6 Mustang hub interesting, so I spent some time researching if it was possible and here’s what I found.

The Capri’s inner bearing will work, but the Mustang’s outer bearing for the 4 lug hub doesn’t look like it’ll fit the Capri spindle. The Mustang’s outer bearing has an inside diameter of 0.687” while the Capri’s outer bearing has an inside diameter of 0.75”.

I think the confusion comes from the fact the V6 Mustang had 3 different brake options, standard drums, heavy duty drums, and disc brakes. It’s the 5 lug HD drum hub that has the outer bearing that will fit the Capri spindle, unfortunately it’s 5 lug and the inner bearing is too big in diameter and width for the Capri’s spindle.

I also did a search thru some bearing catalogs and found the NTN A6075/A6157 bearing that would fit the Capri’s outside spindle, but it would still require 45 thousands to be machined out of the 4 lug V6 hub. It would also require spacers due to it being narrower in width. The other issue was it only had static/dynamic load capacity of 12,800N verse the stock Capri’s 29,000N. So how long it would last would be highly questionable.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2023, 05:31:04 AM by chrispoe »
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EShepherd

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    • 1991 Capri XR2, 1991 Capri XR2 Rusted out Shell
Re: Rear Brake Upgrade
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2023, 08:40:26 AM »

I found your proposed rear brake upgrade using the 65 V6 Mustang hub interesting, so I spent some time researching if it was possible and here’s what I found.

The Capri’s inner bearing will work, but the Mustang’s outer bearing for the 4 lug hub doesn’t look like it’ll fit the Capri spindle. The Mustang’s outer bearing has an inside diameter of 0.687” while the Capri’s outer bearing has an inside diameter of 0.75”.

I think the confusion comes from the fact the V6 Mustang had 3 different brake options, standard drums, heavy duty drums, and disc brakes. It’s the 5 lug HD drum hub that has the outer bearing that will fit the Capri spindle, unfortunately it’s 5 lug and the inner bearing is too big in diameter and width for the Capri’s spindle.

I also did a search thru some bearing catalogs and found the NTN A6075/A6157 bearing that would fit the Capri’s outside spindle, but it would still require 45 thousands to be machined out of the 4 lug V6 hub. It would also require spacers due to it being narrower in width. The other issue was it only had static/dynamic load capacity of 12,800N verse the stock Capri’s 29,000N. So how long it would last would be highly questionable.

I might be able to help slightly with this situation. I was doing a rear brake job on a 2019 Versa, and discovered a spindle setup that looks pretty remarkably similar in size to our Capri rear spindle. I was in a big rush (customer waiting at the end of the day for a drum brake job, go figure) so I didn't get to measure anything like the bolt spacing or spindle diameter. So I'm really just going off of eyeball here...but it looks like I found a spindle that could bolt to our cars and are readily available. Like I said, these come on the rear of a Versa with drum brakes (with the wheel bearings pressed into the drum), so as a whole it's useless as an upgrade. The thing is though, if the bolt spacing is close enough or could be made to work, and if the spindle has a diameter that matches up with the mustang, then this could be the missing piece to make it all work. Maybe.

https://www.mynissanpart.com/p/Nissan__Versa/Stub-Axle-Rear/89896100/43042-1HA0A.html?partner=googlebase_adwords&feedLabel=cvb_make_model&kwd=&matchtype=&device=c&network=g&userLocation=9004283&googleCampaignID=15062360878&googleAdGroupID=132451913481&googleAdID=555734746788&googleExtensionID=&gclid=CjwKCAjwrJ-hBhB7EiwAuyBVXXUj4OtbXbP8ryj4Jdm6DO5FW-lCltBu1BYdjQ015pQWInrO8yANCBoC4aYQAvD_BwE

If either of you guys who sound like you know more about this than me understands what I'm attempting to say, let me know and I can stay late one day to pull a used car apart and measure it's spindle.
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Original_Owner

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    • 1991 XR2
Re: Rear Brake Upgrade
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2023, 10:57:43 AM »

Good News / Bad news...I know where I went down the wrong rabbit hole. The 67-70 Mustangs use a different 4 Lug hub, not the one I listed previously. When I checked bearing sizes I checked the 67-70 4-lug hub, which should work with the stock outer bearing. Now finding a 67-70 Mustang 4-lug hub in decent shape, that is now my real issue. Looks like while I am at Fords @ Carlisle I will be looking for 67-70 Mustang 4-lug hubs. I still think this is the most suitable route until I bolt things together, swear a lot and am forced into another plan.
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chrispoe

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    • 91 BP Capri GT
Re: Rear Brake Upgrade
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2023, 07:45:46 AM »

The 67-68 mustang 4 lug hubs use the same bearings as the 64-66 mustang 5 lug hubs. The outer bearing for that mustang hub is the same size as the Capri’s outer bearing, but the inner bearing now becomes the issue instead. The inner bearing on the 67-68 has a larger ID, OD, and width. I tried to find a bearing in the parts catalogs that I have, but every bearing I could find that fit the Capri’s spindle on the inside was too small for the 67+ mustang hubs.  The 69-70 is also very similar to the 67-68 except the inner bearing is even wider yet.

I’m guessing Ford was having issues with the 4 lug bearings failing, hence why they kept making them larger and larger….LOL


As for the Nissan Versa spindle, this is a completely different setup. That spindle bolts onto the knuckle while the Capri’s knuckle/spindle is all one piece. The other issue is that Versa spindle uses a modern single piece dual ball bearing. Older cars like our Capri use two separate single row tapered roller bearings.
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