TeamCapri
Tech, Repairs, Upgrades => Capri XR-2 89-94 => Topic started by: CapriManxr2 on March 25, 2023, 01:59:32 PM
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My fan never turns on ever since I installed a new 3 row aluminum radiator. When I turn the key to the ignition switch, the fan turns half a spin maybe less, but never spins anymore. I drove it and it got to almost 250 degrees on the gauge, I know not to trust these gauged but that was slightly concerning. I can feel the fan switch click and seems to be working, how do I really know what the problem is with the fan? Another thing, when I installed the new Bosch diverter valve, the car felt SUPER slow. It is really hard to get it up my drive way and it's really hard to accelerate but once the turbo hits it seems to go away. I've tried flip flopping the orientation but still no luck, and it feels the same with the old BPV as well. When i am accelerating without the turbo (1,000-2,750rpm) the car feels like its rocking back and forth, like it's lagging or stuttering but pretty subtle. Any help is appreciated!
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Update: I was able to get the fan to spin by bypassing the switch and jumping it, it span and sounded healthy. So it must be a sensor or the switch itself. About the other problem, where my car ran slow. Well, now it doesn't run at all, I got back from work and tried to start it and it cranked and wanted it to start, even got a couple of the cylinders to fire up but VERY quickly died out. I looked in the engine bay and it smelled slightly like gas, and there was smoke or vapor coming from the firewall by the fuel filter. could the car running slow just be the fuel system and coincidentally happened when I installed the new diverter valve? I am quite lost at this point because the problems seem to just start adding up by the day. Whenever I try to crank the engine, there is a clunk sound or like a clank when the starter disengages.
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Update #3 lol: after putting all of the fan plugins back together the fan started spinning immediately after Turning the key to ignition and didn't stop (witch I'm okay with because it runs hot). and the problem with the cafr not starting wasn't fuel because I undid the bolt at the end of the fuel rail and had a buddy crank it and gas came out with pretty good pressure. After all of that testing, I put the intake back together and this time the car fired right up. the throttle response is still super slow though, when I had it sitting in my garage after letting it warm up, I gave it some revs and it felt like the throttle was only open 1/4 of the way, it felt SUPER spongey. I checked the throttle body and the throttle pedal when pushed all the way opens the butterfly all the way so it's getting air fuel and spark (I just did spark plug and wires a few months ago). Even when I floored it to get the revs up it when up very slowly, like theres something restricting it for holding it back. I'm thinking it's Throttle Positon Sensor or some sort of other sensor. Any one out there that has had the similar issue? Any help is appeciated!
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Alright, did some research on the TPS and I'll try adjusting it a little to get it to idle more comfortably. currently the idle is at ~500rpm and the normal idle for my car is ~900. I found online how to test the sensor and they say to run the car and let it warm up and then pull the plug to the sensor. I did just that and the RPMs fell ~150 so the sensor seems to be working (Maybe) so I'll try turning it and adjusting from what I saw in a video.
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Nevermind, I talked to my grandpa (he's more familiar with older cars) and he said it is my sensor. He said to check vacuum lines to make sure nothing is leaking. But from another video I saw on YouTube to said that a change of RPMs when unplugging the sensor means it's functional? Another thing, the radiator fan doesn't automatically kick in anymore? It did before but it's back to what it was doing before, just doing a half spin when the key goes to the ignition switch. I'm just looking for a second opinion on these problems, any help is greatly appreciated, want to get this back on the road for when it starts to warm up.
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Anyone have any input on the horrible throttle response? Which sensor do yall think it is? I figured out the radiator fan issue, my temp sensor plug in was hardly connected so I tightened up the connection and now the fan spins. But the car doesn't rev AT ALL, like it is in limp mode or something.
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Okay so first off, the YT videos aren't really going to help for this car, unplugging a sensor should not affect the idle. That might be the case for newer OBDII cars but not so much with these relics. Standard idle should be 850-950 RPM. Check for vacuum leaks/other issues before attempting to adjust idle, particularly if it idled properly before.
I would recommend attempting to pull codes from the car, you need to jumper a plug under the hood and then count the flashes on the check engine light when you turn the key to run. This can be done with a paperclip.
Start there, see what the ECU might have to say about things.
It certainly does sound like you have a vacuum or boost leak, that may or may not be related to the new bypass valve. Any leaks behind the VAF meter will cause it to run very poorly. Vacuum line disconnected, split intercooler hose, etc. If you have access to a smoke machine or other method of leak testing that would be helpful.
Regarding the fan:
There are three temperature sensors on the engine. One for the ECU, one for the dash, one that controls the fan. The one that controls the fan is on the t-stat housing. Disconnecting it should immediately turn on the fan. Be wary of running the fan non-stop: I did this on one of my capris and it blew the fuse, leading to an overheat condition. 400 miles from home. That was an exciting weekend
Do you have access to a timing light? It would be good to verify that the static timing advance (done by rotating the distributor) is within spec. This could cause trouble with idle. Did you change this while changing the bypass valve?
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Always listen to him......
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When I did the bypass valve I didn’t touch anything else, one thing is when I did the radiator, there was this tube with this weird white hose that went to a secondary radiator that is in between the main one and the Intercooler. When I installed the new radiator, I had to pull it away and I pulled pretty hard, but I don’t think I broke anything. I will rent a smoke machine and run a test for leaks, I’ve been meaning to do it anyway. Which plugs do I jump to check codes? I’m sure it’s on the forums, so I’ll look around too. Thanks for the help, I can’t wait to get it back on the road.
Edit: Found out how to check for codes, will do this when I get home. Is there a list that shows what the different flashes mean? There was a link on another post but when I clicked on it, it reads page not found. I don't have access to a timing light, but I never ended up adjusting the idle or distributor timing, I'm not too familiar with advancing or adjusting the timing in general so I figured that'd be the last-case scenario.
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alright, I jumped that single green terminal and the check engine light flashed. It flashed 8 short then 2 long and then two short. Any idea what that means?
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Here's a shortlist of codes that used to be on the TeamCapri home page, they got lost during the website transition:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180322170343/http://www.teamcapri.com/howtos/cartroublecodes.html
Here's a PDF scan of the FSM on TechCapri:
https://www.techcapri.com/ServiceManuals/PCM/Capri_PCM_EEC_Quick_Test_Procedures_S05B.pdf
The relevant section is 5B-38 & 39
Based on your results you are seeing a code 8 and code 2
Code 8 is VAF signal, which would definitely cause issues you're reporting.
Code 2 is Camshaft position? sensor which could be something in the distributor. I wouldn't worry about that one at the moment
Double check the procedures and your flashes to make sure the codes match up, www.techcapri.com has some good FSM data to troubleshoot
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Did you unplug the VAF, or undo any of the screws on the VAF connector at any point? I have heard of pins in the connector being bent and not making contact
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I was looking at the MAF and all the pins make contact. There was this new noise that I couldn’t figure out and it was like a loud CLINK whenever the engine shut off. This came from the little door inside the MAF housing that opens with more airflow just slamming shut when the engine turns off. So I should get a new MAF from eBay? I’ll look at the FSM and see what I can do, I’ll also clean it out with MAF cleaner the best I can and see if I can fix this. I have unplugged the MAF MANY times because I undo the intake often to reach things that are below it like the bpv and the thermostat, maybe some of the wires are bad? I’ll look at the FSM to see how to test the VAF. What are the symptoms of a bad camshaft position sensor? Ever since I got the car it’ll have times in low RPM where the engine cuts a little and the CEL comes on, there is no boost when this happens because it is in the low RPM. Anywho, I’ll look into this see what I can do. Thanks for the help rocketman.
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I was looking at the code list and there is a code that is 82, and that is fan shorted to ground. That is what I did to the fan so it could always run and never overheat, could this be the code also? I see it also says that the code is for a 2.3L engine though so probably not and it's probably just a coincidence. I will test the VAF when I get home, found out how to test and found the voltage graph, I also conveniently just found a junkyard capri near me to pull some of the sensors off of it, but it's N/A. How interchangeable are the N/A parts? Are the oxygen, throttle position, and MAF sensors interchangeable? Again, thanks so much for all the help, this forum is a lifesaver and I thank all of you helping me out.
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I was looking at the code list and there is a code that is 82, and that is fan shorted to ground. That is what I did to the fan so it could always run and never overheat, could this be the code also? I see it also says that the code is for a 2.3L engine though so probably not and it's probably just a coincidence. I will test the VAF when I get home, found out how to test and found the voltage graph, I also conveniently just found a junkyard capri near me to pull some of the sensors off of it, but it's N/A. How interchangeable are the N/A parts? Are the oxygen, throttle position, and MAF sensors interchangeable? Again, thanks so much for all the help, this forum is a lifesaver and I thank all of you helping me out.
I know for a fact the VAF assemblies are different part numbers between the NA and the XR2, so you won't be able to swap that. The oxygen sensors and TP sensors are likely the same part. The O2 sensor is easily available from the aftermarket for cheap, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. The TP sensor is one I haven't come across, so I'd definitely steal that off the junkyard car just to have.
As far as the situation with the fan....well whatever you did was a bad idea honestly. With the fans running constantly, the vehicle is going to take a significantly longer time to reach operating temperature (and closed loop idle). None of that is great for the car, but now also we have no idea what you did to the wiring harness to make the fans stay on. The cooling fan is one of the highest amperage circuits (if not the highest) on the car, having that pull full voltage constantly was definitely not the best idea for a 30+ year old wiring harness.
Have you un-done whatever you did to the fan circuit? I'd be interested in looking at the wiring diagram and seeing if there are any shared wires between the fan, fan relay, VAF, and ELC.
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The temp sensor connector is SUPER loose, I had to use electric tape to hold it together. Ever since I taped it, the fan just runs all the time. I'll get a new one because people are saying it's a bad idea. When I put in a the new thermostat I tried to unplug the sensor for better clearance but couldn’t get it to come off, so I probably moved it around a ton. With that, it probably caused the fan to not run or run constantly. I think that is why my old radiator blew up on me. It blew when I was idling sitting still. About the VAF, I really noticed the change when I put in the new bpv but that’s probably just coincidentally when the VAF started to act up. Anywho, I’m going to test the connections and see what the voltage readings are.
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The fan running constantly means you aren't getting a connection. This is a safeguard so that if you have a switch failure, you just unplug it and it runs constantly till you can get a new switch. It isn't a good idea to let it go long because it isn't designed for that service.
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So I tested the VAF and no matter which pin I jumped with the SIGRTN pin I couldn't get it over 2V, according to the diagram it needs to be bottoming at 1.9V and top out at 7.5V. So does this mean that I need to acquire a new VAF from eBay or RockAuto? (If you guys or anyone you know could send me one that I can buy for less than $150 that would be sweet)
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Never mind, found one on amazon for $100, hope this fixes my problem and can get my car back on the road for the upcoming summer. I'll let yall know if this new part solves my problems.
Edit: Thought I found one on Amazon but it looks like it won't fit. Will have to keep looking.
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So I got a new VAF/MAF in and the issue persists. No more codes though, I'm thinking vacuum leak, how do I test that?
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So I got a new VAF/MAF in and the issue persists. No more codes though, I'm thinking vacuum leak, how do I test that?
If you can get the car to a shop, or have access to it, the correct way is a smoke machine. If you can't do that, you'll need to get creative. I'm gonna be putting a cone shaped adapter into my air intake (where the VAF goes), then installing a tire valve stem into that. With that, I should be able to use a tire inflator to put a few psi of air pressure through my intake system, so then I can spray everything down with soapy water. It'll make a ton of bubbles wherever it's leaking.
Since we seem to be having the same problem - you may want to check the plastic j-pipe that comes off the cold side of the turbo. Inside of the turbo-end of that piece is this silly plastic/rubber thing, which is I guess supposed to function like an o-ring. Take the j-pipe off and you should find it (or like me, what's left of it). I should add - I haven't actually fixed this yet, I'm just aware that it's a problem. You could probably fix it with a piece of cut up hose, or some PVC pipe, or you could get fancy with some aluminum if you wanted. If you are running more than 10psi of boost, don't let it be too janky or it's just gonna blow apart at WOT.
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So I checked the O ring like you said and it's fine. I even purged ALL the air leaks in my system, I replaced the MAF and filter with a closed end piece of rubber that fit the J pipe and drilled a hole into it and use my air compressor and sprayed ~15 psi into the intake system and found 3 or 4 leaks in there. I fixed them all up and and turned the car over and it still idles like crap, better than before though. The throttle response is still iffy, it feels spongey kinda. Also, when I was checking the hoses in the BPV, there is this black rubber cable that connects to the distributor on end and the other end has a red connection that connects to this black thing that was connected to the old air box. Anyway, whenever I brought my hand near it it would arc to my hand, but it didn't hurt or anything, just like a little shock, figure I'd mention that. Anyway, after purging all the boost/vac leaks and new VAF sensor the problem persists. Any idea on what else could be causing this? Like I said before, there are no more engine codes and it was running fine before I put in the new BPV, I even put in the old back in to see if it did anything but nope, still the same.
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So I checked the O ring like you said and it's fine. I even purged ALL the air leaks in my system, I replaced the MAF and filter with a closed end piece of rubber that fit the J pipe and drilled a hole into it and use my air compressor and sprayed ~15 psi into the intake system and found 3 or 4 leaks in there. I fixed them all up and and turned the car over and it still idles like crap, better than before though. The throttle response is still iffy, it feels spongey kinda. Also, when I was checking the hoses in the BPV, there is this black rubber cable that connects to the distributor on end and the other end has a red connection that connects to this black thing that was connected to the old air box. Anyway, whenever I brought my hand near it it would arc to my hand, but it didn't hurt or anything, just like a little shock, figure I'd mention that. Anyway, after purging all the boost/vac leaks and new VAF sensor the problem persists. Any idea on what else could be causing this? Like I said before, there are no more engine codes and it was running fine before I put in the new BPV, I even put in the old back in to see if it did anything but nope, still the same.
It sounds like you're trying to say the ignition coil is arcing, or possibly one of the spark plug leads? Do you have any pictures?
Fix whatever is arcing. If that's not the cause of your current issues, it's gonna end up being the cause of your Car-B-Q when you inevitably spring an oil or fuel leak...
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I can take some pictures for you, as in car-b-q you mean the car is done for? And how do I submit pictures?
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Ok, I’ll just post an Imgur link. The cable in my hand is the one that arcs when the car is running. https://imgur.com/a/4ohnW8M Any ideas?
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That is the coil wire, you need new plug wires as the others are probably breaking down too.
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Yep, get new plug wires. That's probably causing a lot of your rough running issues.
Also, where were your intake air leaks and how severe were they? Does your car still stall right after startup?
Edit- Car-b-q, I meant if you have a fuel leak (the vapor is the serious danger here) or an oil leak, and a spark...well you get an explosion. That's a coil wire, so it'll spark hundreds of times a minute. If you wind up say a small little leak at the fuel line coming off the fuel filter, kaboom. Fix it ASAP, things sparking under your hood that you can see is always bad.
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My most prominent leaks were the little vacuum lines that came off the BPV and there was a small leak where the Jpipe connects to the turbo. I tightened they all down with new clamps and that fixed the air leak. I don’t drive the car and hardly run it Right now because the issues, the spar plug cables are brand new and don’t arc though, I’ll just replace the coil wire for now. And the car runs, it just feels super hesitant and the rpm’s drop every time I get off the gas. Thanks for the help guys.
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So I fixed the arcing by moving the ground to a new bolt that was cleaner and way less rusty. But my problem still persists, I think I’m going to have to take it to a shop and have them take a look at it :(.
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Well guys, It ended up being low compression :'(. I think I'm gonna rebuild the head, it doesn't burn oil which leads me to think that it might be a bent valve that kills the compression.
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Oh wow.....I've got a 13K car that I'm gonna have to do valve job on because it has a sticking valve. Bent valves aren't usually a problem because the B series engines are non-interference engines.
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Yeah, I ran some compression tests and was getting 80-90PSI on all cylinders. My grandpa taught me that if you put a little oil in the spark plug hole and run compression tests again, if it's better then it's bottom end but if its the same then its top end. Well, when I ran the tests again with oil I got 120-130PSI which according to the FSM those numbers are still within the operating range. So I'm going to re-ring the pistons, do a head gasket and maybe get the block resurfaced. but so far, those are the plans for the capri. I hope I can get this thing running again, these little cars are so much fun and addicting.
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By the way, is there anything on the FSM about torque specs and how to remove the head? I’m gonna need at least the torque specs.
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http://web.archive.org/web/20151002170440/http://techcapri.home.comcast.net/~techcapri/
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Yeah, I ran some compression tests and was getting 80-90PSI on all cylinders.
Warm or cold engine?
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The engine was cold when I ran the compression tests
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Those numbers should pick up significantly on a warm engine, probably closer to the oil'd numbers
As I recall my healthy XR2 engines also comp'd ~90psi cold
XR2 engine is stupid low compression from the factory, 7.9:1
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Geez, then what could my problem be? The mechanic said compression, I’ve done a new coil pack, got rid of all vacuum and boost leaks, new distributor cap, new engine coolant temp sensor, cleaned out the IAC, new MAF, tested the alternator and my problem still persists. The throttle response is still very bad, and it eats up a ton fuel. What else could this be?
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Geez, then what could my problem be? The mechanic said compression, I’ve done a new coil pack, got rid of all vacuum and boost leaks, new distributor cap, new engine coolant temp sensor, cleaned out the IAC, new MAF, tested the alternator and my problem still persists. The throttle response is still very bad, and it eats up a ton fuel. What else could this be?
Did you ever check fuel pressure? How about the injectors?
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Yeah, I’ve done so many things it’s hard to write them down, when I ran fuel pressure it would idle at 39PSI and when I gave it throttle it jumped up to 43 and right after letting off the throttle it drops to ~28PSI. I cleaned and tested the injectors as well. I also checked to make sure the timing marks lined up on the crank pulley to make sure it didn’t slip out of the correct timing.