Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jim Simms]

After I get the turbo rebuilt again, I will be considering having the head reconditioned and later, engine rebuilt.
The compression was in the low 100's.
One mechanic told me he could get new motor from Jasper Motors. Another said Jasper did not have the Capri motor.
One mechanic said the labor time for replacing the head was 12-15 hours. Another said 7-8.
What would be a reasonable labor time for replacing a reconditioned head?
What would be a reasonable cost to have the head reconditioned? I do not know if a new head can be bought.
Since buying a new engine would be out of question, what would be the going rate for a rebuild?
I fee like many here; we have done so much, hard to let go.

[mitch1204]

If you have 100 psi on all cylinders than most likely your rings are shot. You can squirt about a teaspoon or two of oil in each cylinder one at a time and see if the compression reading improves. If it does than its definitely the rings.

How many miles on it?

Labor should take 8 hrs to R&R if they know what they are doing, not counting machine shop time. My head cost $175 to resurface and work the valves/seals.

These aren't high mileage engines. Above 150k and you are lucky. Turbos are even harder on them.

I seen a left over Jasper engine on eBay about a year ago. Jasper was selling it to clear out left over stock. It went for $850. I wish I bought it. That tells me they discontinued production. I think I can get another 100k out of my engine. I have 142 psi on all cylinders and plan on changing the rod and main bearings this year to help me get there.

Your best bet is probably seek out a parts car on CL.

[Jim Simms]

Thanks for the input, Mitch.
I have 172,000 miles  on the car.
I will get an exact compression test results and see what it is running. Yours having 142 should have good performance.
One mechanic asked why I would spend the money to save the car.  Guess unless you have one, he would not understand.
will do some checking for engine redo prices. Might even find an engine.

[Rocketman]

What were the exact numbers?

The XR2 has low static compression to begin with from the factory. It's 7.9:1 CR. I think the last time I checked one of my engines it was 110psi or so. It may be tired but its running fine and no smoke.

AFAIK you cannot get a Jasper engine. There was someone selling refurb or NOS shortblocks on eBay a while ago but there was no word on what compression ratio they were (there are 3 options based on transsmission type)
12-15hrs is ludicrous. Should be 6-8 max. For replacing the whole engine, correct? Would you be replacing the clutch at the same time?

You still haven't commented on whether or not you cleaned out the intercooler and intake piping after your turbo blew the first time. If the intercooler loaded up with a quart or two of oil you're going to see smoke for quite some time.

[Jim Simms]

Thanks for your reply.
I will get the mechanic to remove and clean out the intercooler when the turbo is out.
I will get the exact numbers on the compression, or the PSI. Just after the turbo was replaced, it ran great, plenty of power.
Thanks for clarifying the hourly time necessary for R and R of the head. If my man quotes me 6-8 hours on the head, I will get it done. It tells me a lot about a shop which quotes these crazy numbers, thinking we will not check it out.
A note has been made that if the engine is rebuilt, I should replace the clutch as well.
Waiting to hear from mechanic.

[azgtx]

Have them do a leak down test. That can pinpoint exactly what is the issue is. All it could need is the head rebuilt.

[Jim Simms]

Let me see if I get this:
Compression test tells you if your rings are shot.
Leakdown tells you that your valve are shot.
It that too simplified?

I need to get some exact numbers to post. I was told the compression was in the low 100's.
And I see one member whose XR2 was running 145 compression.

Thanks for this suggestion of getting a leakdown test done. Might be best thing.

[mitch1204]

There are different compression engines. For the most part many are around 150 psi from the factory. Racing engines will have a higher compression.

Section 21-10-3 covers compression testing in the manual. What's most important is the lowest cylinder reading is within 75% of the highest reading. Any head gasket or valve leakage will be obvious. So is a broken oil ring as you'll be smoking. The manual had a max/min chart for your 75%. The lowest reading on it is 101psi.

I had an old F150 with the straight 6 cylinder. It had 100 psi on all cylinders with 287k miles. It would run fine until you tried to haul something uphill then you were down in 1st gear crawling. With good compression it would normally climb that hill with no problem. So that's where even compression comes into play. I won't buy a vehicle unless it has good compression unless I get a deal. Below 120 I'm thinking sell or plan on a rebuild in the next year.

Not only do the rings wear the rod and main bearings are wore. With the slop then the cylinders start taking on an egg shape. Then you are looking at a bore and oversized rings. It's just how far you want to push it.

My Capri just turned 96k and I plan on changing the rod and main bearings this summer. Why if I don't need to? With good bearings the cylinders will hold their shape and I'll get maximum life out of the rings. Probably 200k plus. That's rare for a small engine. Plus on this car swapping the bearings is easy and can be done with the engine in the car.

There are many things to consider. The most important is the 75% , do you plan on keeping the car a long time. Each person is different. I plan on keeping mine forever so I'm giving it a complete make over even though it doesn't need it. I'll know what I have plus it's a hobby .

[T Rex]

My daughter has a '98 Protege that the previous owner never changed the oil. At 92k it was burning a quart every 200 miles. We called it Proto-Smokey. It was a 1.5 liter which appears similar to our Capri motor. I decided to rebuild it and everything was caked up bad. It was so bad it had to be bored over. .040" I think. I had the head done as well. I couldn't find a decent used motor so I  rebuilt this one. 

I had a local machine shop do all the work and the bill was $500. About $300 of that was the head work. With parts and machine I had almost $1,200 in it. But everything was new, water pump, oil pump, bearings, timing belt, etc. So I figured that wasn't too bad. Unless you figure we had $3,000 in a $2,000 car HAHA!!!!

I'm sure your car didn't have this issue about the oil never being changed but I thought I would share my experience. Hope it helps. Good luck and I hope your motor isn't too bad.

[Jim Simms]

Thanks for all the advice.
Yes, looks like I plan to be driving this car a long long time.
It gets to the point that "if I do this, I might as well do this" or "I will need to do this if I change this" so now I am all in.
Now that engine and head wiil be refurbished, I will be looking for a little more power.
Am seriously considering having Rocket put a chip into my ECU and give me a bit of boost. I know there might be a few little mods to do (boost controller) and maybe more powerful coil and heavy ignition wires.
Quick question: if a larger coil is installed, what will be the result of extra combustion in the cylinder? How will that affect the piston? Will a different piston be needed?

[T Rex]

I think the hotter coil is a good thing. A better spark in the combustion process keeps the spark from getting degraded or blown out, especially when you crank up the boost.

[Jim Simms]

Would a hotter spark from the more powerful coil do any damage to the piston?
Have heard all sorts of different feedback on this.

Also, I assume higher grade ignition wires would been needed.
Would a different distributor cap and distrib rotor be a good idea?

I am biting a big big bullet, having a complete redo; cant give her up

[mitch1204]

Nah, you won't hurt it. The only thing you have to worry about is early detonation which advances your timing. That's when damage can occur.

Stock coils are inductive coils. It has a primary coil with a secondary coil in the middle. They start to rolloff (can't keep up) around 3000+rpms. You want a capacitor coil which are good up to much higher rpms like 6-15k rpms depending on which coil you buy.

Engineers designed the ignition system for practical everyday driving. Like you said you'll want lower resistance wires and better plugs.

There are many things you can do to design your spark. From buying hotter plugs to a complete make over. The main thing is to have detonation at the exact millisecond you are suppose to so double check the timing.

Drag racers will tune their ignition system by slowly increasing the gap on their spark plugs until it goes from better to worse. Then they will go a few thousands less. Then it's trial and error finding the perfect coil. They create the perfect spark by how hot and how long.

Also if you idle a lot or do a lot of low speed driving you need a hot enough plug to prevent carbon build up. After you build your ignition the plug color will tell you a story.

I know MSD makes an ignition box that you add to your existing coil. It boosts the primary coil input from 12v to 540v which greatly increases the secondary output. It also has an adjustable rev limiter in case you go crazy, lol. I think Accel and Mallory still have the capacitor coils for this engine. I would pick one of them over an inductive coil if you plan on high revs.

[greywolf27030]

I have been looking at a multiple spark system as a way to get a little more power on the bottom end and was wondering if it would make enough difference to warrant the cost.  I have one that a friend took off a Festiva equipped B6, so will probably try it in the spring.  The multiple spark idea makes sense to me but like the coil you mentioned the effect starts dropping off at about 3K.  I've never revved to 6K with mine.  I grew up with big blocks and although I love my little red car with it's 35MPH, I don't care to hear it screaming at high revs.

Jack Byrd

[Jim Simms]

Just saw a listing for the B6T motor on Carid.com
stock number 23065221
price was about $2,000.00
anyone have any experience with these people?
I was scanning the internet for bearings and other stuff to get to my mechanic.
If this is not a good place to get the engine, what place has all the bearings, seals, rings, etc, needed for the rebuild?