TeamCapri
General => Photographs => Topic started by: kelly270 on July 17, 2010, 03:29:00 AM
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well the motor arrived today, now the fun stuff starts. I've started a list of what will need to be done... anyone got a line on a good bank that will loan money on a song and promise??
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/motor002.jpg)
even came with the turbo and exhaust manifold!!
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/motor001.jpg)
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/motor003.jpg)
shoot it even gots red spark plug wires!!
the tear down starts tommorrow, we will see whats inside and start gathering info on how to get to 250 bhp, any input will be appreciated. I will start with getting the block hottanked and bored out. Is the 323 motor a short nose crank?
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big carshow in town today, might have to drive by a couple times with the bov blowing off and spitting!!
they will be impressed!
I thought I'd share that I drove over to seattle yesterday for a total of 14 hours driving, during that time, i didn't see another capri!!!
I did see a group of really nice supra turbo's, like 10 of them all driving together, kind of cool to see any speciality autos like that all together.
I'm really sorry to not be able to have been to the show this year to see all the capri's together.
Really sorry to not to have been able to meet and talk to you guys that have really ramped up your cars.
I would have liked to have rode in your car, Joe. That is what I am gunnin for.
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yes a 323gt motor would be a small nosed crank
along with early 91 capris...
a 323 motor actually has thicker rods than a capri engine...
the engine originally had thicker rods. but when the miata was introduced the miata thinner rod superceded the thicker ones. the newer b6t rods are "miata rods"
my car has miata rods in it..
and im close to 250hp... i think with a mitsu 16g turbo you could make 250 with a b6t...
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you can ask josh or rocketman they have both witnessed the power...lol
its actually a big power to weight hog... if someone rides with me wether my 120lb wife, or my buddy bryan whose about 220 i can notice a difference...
heres some pics...
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/RCIfabrication/DSC00694.jpg)
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/RCIfabrication/DSC00693.jpg)
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Tell me about it. Our small engines make a lot of power for their size but they hate pulling a lot of weight around. Especially for me, my car weights about 1850lb empty but I had 700-750lb worth of people in it. Its definitely different than just my 145lb self in it.
Loaded with people it feels like... a capri (http://tongue.gif)
pulling a trailer.
Also I must ask... why dont you guys swap to BPT's more often instead of using B6T's? They seem a bit better for the Capri's "high" curb weight. If I ever get ahold of a decent Capri thats probably what I will do.
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Ive wondered why people don't go for the BPT more often myself... its such a worthwhile swap
Joe - The 323 GT's as far as I know got the thin rods - it was the GTX / awd cars that got the thicker rods.
Kelly- post pics when you get the bottom end apart i'd like to see the rods. You said the motor came from a 323 GT or GTX?
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GT and GTX big rods...yanked them out of both cars.
Clay
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according to the guys at "JDM Racing Motors", yes, that is correct, racing motors, it came from a 89 323 gt.
Yeah Joe, I want to be glued to the f#@**%ing seat, like Josh said he was agfter riding in your car!
Your car is what I'm after. The speed that is. I could have sworn that I read that you sold your car for $5000.00!!??
Man, for what I've spent, I could have easily just given you $5000 and been done with it!!!
The only consolation I will have is: I will still have a decent B6T motor when I'm done.
Shit, the car runs fine and pulls like a SOB when I am running full boost, (16 PSI). I made a new Infinity piss his pants the other day.
I swear he got out and cried when I pulled away from him the other day!
Bottom line is- I want to build a motor and still want to drive the car while I'm building it!
I'm sure that I can find a XR2 with a blown motor to put muy current motor in, when Im finished. Then sell the other one for pennies on the dollar!
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ive had the car since may 2007 and its seen a total of 7 months downtime ...i drive it to work every night.... i was very "unprepared" when the last motor popped.. had to save the money and do the work.. it took about 1,000 and 7 months from blowing it up to taking it to work aggain...
the motor is a N/A capri block w/snub nose crank
stock block, pistons, rods, bearings..
the head is from a pevious b6t and has stock cams...its held together with ARP headstuds and has a cometic HG to hold the pressure...
my comp.rto is approx 9.2-1
im currently running a reflanged b6t mani hanging a mitsubishi 14b turbo that makes about 405cfm @15psi and dumps into a "reflanged to tdo5" corksport divorced downpipe which dumps its 20psi to atmosphere at wg opening...
at full boost it gets very loud...
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oh and rocket, ive had both engines and the 323gt has thicker rods than my capris first or second motor... there not the monsters from the BPD, but definately thicker than the miata rods..
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heres a pic of the different rods
the first one with no piston is a bpd rally car engines rod, the center one is a miata rod. and the third from the right is the late 80s b6t 323gt/gtx rod....
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/RCIfabrication/rodcomparisonbpdbptb6tfd1.jpg)
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Okay my mistake. I thought only the GTX's got the thicker rods.
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Yeah, i was out pricing gasket sets and shit today. I really wish I knew what the motor was, I'm confused after reading the reciept. You guys think there is a difference in like buying a gasket set off ebay, and going to the parts store??
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One more question, what injectors should I be looking for. Is there anything that will fit, for an upgrade, that can picked up at the junk yard???
How about fuel pump? is the stock one needing replacement?
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I'll offer a word of caution against the eBay gasket sets... I'd use everything but the head gasket... I had issues with a cheap eBay HG ended up with a massive oil leak. Poor construction
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That is what I do...don't use the head gasket from the kit...go spend the 40 bucks and get a good one or go with the cometic and studs and not worry at all.
Clay
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my car actually is put together with a complete upper end gasket set from a 1.6 miata...
the cometic gasket and arp hardware was all ordered off ebay for a 1.6 litre miata..
you will still need to source a disi gasket
(o ring) and a valvecover gasket for a 323gt or capri xr2...the miata is different there, but all the misc. gaskets fit just fine..
you will need atleast an MLS headgasket to hold the boost for 250hp
as for turbo, fuel, and the such..
you will need a turbo capable of pushing atleast 500cfm (my turbo pushes 405cfm) but my car is not yet making 250hp either..
to be safe im gonna say 500cfm...
you will need a walbro, 255lph, in tank, low pressure fuel pump...
there 100 bucks on ebay...
you need to make sure its a low pressure 30-35psi not for a honda they run high pressure pumps 55-65psi and will be way too much for the little engine...
you will need a set of atleast 390cc if not 450cc like im running, fuel injectors..
search ebay theres a few guys on there that sell ultrasonicly cleaned DSM 450cc (baby blue top)
injectors for arround 120.00 with a resistor box to run em.. you cant beat that.. or go digging in a parts yard and find aturbo eclipse and take the injectors and resistor box from it...
you will also need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator of some sort, to tune fuel pressure..
i used a honda civic fuel pressure modifier from a company called blox.. you must cut the hat off the stock one and install the one in the kit..
you will need to tighten the spring in your VAM (airflow meter) about 10 clicks to compensate for the large turbos intake draw on the flapper..
otherwise, you will run stupid rich on the idle becuase the turbo will draw the flapper further up the range on the idle. making the computer think your running at a higher rpm than you are, and squirting more fuel...
and the most important thing you need to upgrade your brakes to slow it back down without hitting something.... if you can think of any more answers you need just ask...
Joe...
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excellent knowelege joe, thanks. I will be falling back on this for a minute. I probobly could have saved some money and not bought the head gasket and ARP bolts from cork sport, eh? There good, but spendy!! I'm having a guy look at the motor and head, so he will be the one to port the head, and I will ask him about porting the exhaust manifold as well. Parts are starting to arrive in the mail. I'm getting excited. My money has to build up a little before the turbo purchuse. I will use the time to get to know the new engine. After reading matts input about putting the cams in the super-roo, I think that I will probobly need to do that also!
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Whats a disi gasket?? Its got the brake upgrade on the front, I would like to upgrade to some real brakes though.
Joe- I found some of the injectors on line, but they dont come with the resistor box, there are other resistors offered on ebay, does it take a special one to run them, or will any one work?
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Ya, corksport is good but spendy indeed, best to shop around...
Disi = Dizzy = Distributor, like Joe said its an O-Ring seal
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search this forum... in "photos" or "91-94xr2"
somewhere theres a whole thread on making a resistor box, called "resistor box how to" or from donor cars that have the right resistor boxes...
essentially wherer all the injectors grounds meet together. you must run a resistor or set of resistors so that you dont fry the low impedance injectors...
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I got some input about the fuel pump, and high and low pressure, they said that it is all depending on the regulator, this comes from treperformance fuel pumps, that it would probobly fall on your adjustable fuel pressure regulator that you talked about, eh?? I sent out an email to Bloxracing about the regulator, but as of today they have not returned any emails.
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Man, there are sure alot of different size injectors out there. Will the ones you talked about with the baby blue tops, just be a bolt on thing, with the resistor box fastened on else where?
Sorry to ask so many questions, but I rely on your experiances and expertease to kind of help me through. I'm sure others on the forum are getting info from this as well!
Who knows what will happen after this is all done and said. I might have to take the spare engine and drop it in a pinto or something. LOL
By the way clay- the cometic head gasket from cork sport was something like 105.00 head bolt kit was a little more than that, gates timing belt 70.00, high volume oil pump was 187.00!!! like I said I should have shopped around a little.
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/misc017.jpg)
getting excited about this now, still waiting for alot of items, though
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/misc018.jpg)
the money i could have saved by buying a honda.
Shit Joe. you ever been to washington, its very pretty this time of year!!
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If you would have bought a Honda, you wouldn't have met us!! That is worth it's weight in gold!
Besides, I have yet to run across a Honda that could beat me (not saying they don't exist-just saying I haven't run one yet!)!
--Russ
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Besides, had you bought a Honda, you would either own a car with no covertible top (pretty boring) OR, a convertible with no space behind the seats!
What would be the point in that? Don't get me wrong, Hondas have their place, they just have no place here...
Spend the money on something nice.
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Sorry, all this money, and no BP? Its by FAR the best bang for the buck.
Otherwise lookin good kelly, you're coming along quickly with your car!
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BP is overrated... more torque means more tire smoke... besides, like russ i havent met up with a bp swapped car that has beat me... the guy chris knows from ohio had a bpt goin and i dusted him off... my buddy dustin has the mazdaspeed mx5 with close to the same mods i have done. minus turbo and fuel, still a super new model bpt with vvt, he gets me off the line and i get him in the long run...
not that there not out there, but i aint met the guy with one yet...
the name of the game is power to weight...
http://robrobinette.com/et.htm (http://robrobinette.com/et.htm)
this calculator is handy in figuring the difference in the power to weight ratio...
take and enter your hp and weight and then
reduce the weight in small increments.
watch the 1/4 et drop.. then raise the hp a bit..
(this will entrance about an hour of your time just searching different car weights and power...) very handy...
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just for S&G put my #s in. 220 wheel at 2100 lbs.
it comes up with a 12.3 now add a good fwd launch to that, i ran a 12.8 at the strip and with perfect traction i prolly could get a 12.3
now rocket your #s would be alot closer where a good launch in your car would yeild very good traction... say your car when estimated runs a 12.3, at the track your car would probably run a 12.5 or so... just remember the calculator uses #s with no variables (no wheelspin, no slippage of the clutch, no reaction time...) so dont be using this to brag about times... it will bite you in the ass when you actually run the car..
now on the same note, rocket, you told me your car weighed about 2600 lbs. to make the same 12.3 1/4 mile pass (theoreticaly) its going to take 270 hp..
time for a t3-t4 and some big squirters on that bp..LOL
now kel saying your capri is stock 2400 lbs..
at 250 whp you will also run a 12.3 (theoretically) wich means a 12.8 like me...
after the tiresmoke...
have fun....Joe
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Joe,when you say you put your #s in, what is the formula or websight or whatever. Ofcourse sitting in the garage needing a rebuilt turbo my #s are not going to scare the women and children.Thanks Rocky.
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Also, where did you get the 220 HP figure? Did you do a dyno run?
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the calculator is in the thread before my last one scroll up and click the link...nevermind here. http://robrobinette.com/et.htm (http://robrobinette.com/et.htm)
russ, its all a numbers game.. i havent dynoed the car with the 14b turbo on it yet.. but this motor with the vj11-14 hybrid made 185hp on 18psi (or 4.72 hp per psi..) thats with a turbo with a flowrate of 280cfm the 14b makes 405cfm @15psi and is efficient to 22psi..
also you need to look at how much air you can in turn get rid of..
the 14 exhaust housing is 2 inches. meaning all of you exhaust must pass through a 2in hole no matter how big your downpipe is, your only going to flow what the 2 inch hole will allow..
now the 14bs tdo5 exhaust wheel is 2.5 inch. same as my downpipe and exhaust.. so the exhaust housing restriction is gone, the throttle body will not allow the flow to truely use a 2.5 in turbine housing.. also by dumping my wastegate to atmosphere is 10-15 hp alone (hence why you run an externally gated setup to make big power)
you can tune your flow when the wastegate opens by using say a 38mm WG vs a 34mm WG...
on the 2.0 4g63 mitsu the 14b is good for 300hp
@21psi (the engines head flows more air)
our engine is a 1.6 id say 220 @18psi is conservative..
ok lets do it this way, the na makes 100hp..
each psi of boost is about 7hp...
18x7=126 so at 7hp per psi of boost (rather conservative for a 400cfm turbo) thats 226hp
not to mention im venting to atmosphere and gaining that flow up top when the WG opens..
ok the na makes 100 hp and the turbo makes 132
take the 32 divide by 8psi (stock boost) thats 4hp per psi with a stock vj14 turbo and a 7.9-1 compression ratio..
now add an efficient fmic, hardpipes, 125 more cfm and bump the compression to 9-1....yea id say 7hp per lb of boost is a safe # to go with.
226 conservatively...
now if you really want to get nasty ive been known to pull my wastegate hose from my actuator and run it at 23psi on the throttle.. not good for it. but i have plenty of fuel so its not going to go lean on me...
oh and 23x7=161 thats 261hp at 23psi by using that conservative 7hp per psi #...
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all I can say is... shit. You guys really know yer shit. Hey is there a different size belt to buy after eliminating the AC?? Does anyone know the number?? I looked at that SOB a long time today, and there is no real way to pipe in the intercooler with it in place, (you were right Matt). No carpet today and no intercooler. Bummer, I was really wanting to try it out today, see what differance the intercooler and hybrid turbo will make. And you guys are right about meeting the fellows and shit! Besides i am learning stuff I never knew. Lots of research the last few weeks, let me tell you!!
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O'Reilly Auto parts K040345 $8.99 ,power steering w/out A/C.Thats the cheapest, they go on up to like 25 bucks,goodyear, Gates blue etc. Rocky
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And there is an O'Reillys in Port Angeles, on first street! Rocky
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just ask.. the knowledge pool is great on this forum...
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you think... LOL they just put that freaking o'rielly's up like a week or so ago, already you guys know about it!!! Thats almost funny!! The parts guys at the other places, all know me by name. I'm pretty sure that, I pay at least one guy at each place's wages!! On a nicer note, the gal that bought my 5.0 is having a new top installed this weekend! good 4 her.
I can't wait to install the windshield banner I had made, I had all these plans on installing the fmic and upgraded turbo and leaving the front off and cruising it round this weekend! You know, just to be cool. Took off the 8mm red plug wires and hem on the car. The engine compartment is looking good. The rebuilt turbo is on and the exhaust manifold with no cracks, (believe it or not), is on. I'm just waiting for the carpet and intercooler! Next weekend for sure.
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yeah, bought the belt, and the AC comes off tommorrow. No way aound it. And the weight loss should make a differance.
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/newst002.jpg)
heres my buddy mikey the mechanic showin' his skills,, check the sign on the wall of the shop!! Straight stolen from "pill hill" tacoma WA, place you don't want to be!
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/newst004.jpg)
heres a shot of one of the seats after they were recovered. Looks good eh? new black carpet will be installed and a big f'in' speaker box will take the place of the rear seat!
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/newst006.jpg)
heres the hybrid in place, after reading lots of input, this and the FMIC should be a real nice upgrade.
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/newst007.jpg)
Man those red 8mm wires look good!!
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad143/kelly270/newst008.jpg)
that should comfirm the short nose crank!! Thank god, I spent $$180 on the high volume oil pump, from here on out all parts ordered will be for the 88 323 gt motor!!
coming long!! Thanks, Clay, for the parts, and the info, to confirm what we already knew, kind of...
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Joe, I got the guys from Blox to respond, they said that the fuel pressure regulator from a honda civic, would not work on our cars, did you mean a fuel management unit, and if so they need to know the specific ratio that I would need. I know that you said that whatev er it was would need to be modified.
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Kell ok listen... they dont make much for a capri and alot of times you need to borrow and modify others cars parts....
you need ..
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/RCIfabrication/DSC00010.jpg)
this is my intake mani out of the car you can see the gold reg. on the rail...
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/RCIfabrication/PICT0743.jpg)
here it is in the engine compartment...
trust me its a honda civic fuel pressure regulator.. it modifys the stock reg...
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theese are some comparison pics of the td05h-14b hotside and a vj-14 hotside .. you can see what i was talking about above with the 2in out compared to the 2.5 inch out and the huge difference in flow...also the big difference in wastegate hole size... holds peak boost better without as much spiking...
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/RCIfabrication/hotsidecomp3.jpg)
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/RCIfabrication/hotsidecomp2.jpg)
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/RCIfabrication/hotsidecomp1.jpg)
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cool, I will get some more questions in line, when it comes time to do the thing?? Man talkin' bout a big diff in the sizes on the turbo's!!! Yeah, I see what you mean. Man I had a half a day off today and just got done working on the intercooler, today and yesterday. Its no easy task, and I sincerely hope anyone doing this, is willing to cut up the front of thier car a little! I had to drop off the top piece at the custom welders, to weld up an aluminum spicket for the vacumme port. We don't have aluminum welding wire at the shop where I work. The carpet came out sic!!! goes with the seats so well, its my little part of the 94 upgrades that most people put on thier cars, only mine is on the inside!! Very few people will ever even know the car did not come with the black interior!! I love the little subtle changes that no one else does.
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What benefits do you get from that Civic's pressure regulator?
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Adjustable fuel pressure. You'll need it to try to run oversize injectors.
Joe is your FPR a RRFPR? What ratio?
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hell no, i had to turn the fuel DOWN... ok basically all you do is cut the hat off the stock reg. the stock spring flies out and gets lost... you use the included spring and the fpr is just a hat with a adjustable screw to tighten or loosten the spring pressure on the stock regs valve... no rising rate.. except when boost is pushed into the reg and holds the valve closed...
at an idle you can adjust the spring tension on the valve and get it to lean out at idle...
this was never meant to raise the pressure at all.. with the 450 cc injectors it runs stoopid rich at idle and out of boost conditions.. this reg (fuel pressure modifier)lets me soften the rate of the regs internal spring allowing fuel to bypass whenever vac. press is present and closes as stock when you make boost or hit 0 on the boost guage... then its up to the over clocked vam to controll fuel input into the engine via pulse width ect of the injector...
you guys are thinking backwards here you need less pressure to run the bigger injectors..
otherwise the computer dosent know the stock ones are not in there it sends the same signal
and thinks its squirting the same amount of fuel where in reality its alot more fuel getting dumped in... Honda guys use theese to raise the pressure on there cars. to make a smaller injector squirt more fuel. you will need it to
lower pressure while in vac. to not run pig rich on the idle and cruising... make sense???
your tricking the simplistic ecu into running a bigger injector the ecu dosent know its a bigger injector is pulses it the same whether its a 300cc injector or a 700cc injector you just need it to not squirt so much down low.. so keeping the return flowing when not in boost achieves this... trust me with the walbro pump the fuel is there.. your not going to go lean even with the bypass wide open... hell ive forgotten to put the vac line back on my reg before and went for a ride and didnt lean out on the wideband till over 14psi then when it did lean out it was only into the 13.5 range.. noticeable to the tuner but not detramental to the motor...
now, if i could only figure out a way to lean it out a bit up top arround 18psi of boost id make alot more power .. and get alot less cylinder wash...Joe.
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yeah it all makes sense. one quick question, I was thinking about running a fuel cell when its all done, can i get an inline one to work? I gues I'm wondering whay you specify an in tank model.
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why oh why would you want to run a fuel cell? god I hate mine soo much
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I guess from the sounds of it, I don't?? I was thinking of placing it directly over the rear wheels, along with relocating the battery, for better wieght distibution. Then, you know, maybe, aluminum lug nuts to shave some wieght...
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Honestly you really won't get much better weight distribution with fuel tanks than you already have.
Key is to keep weight low (and also between the f/r wheels)...look at subaru and their flat boxer motors... putting a cell in the trunk puts the weight up higher. Getting it over the wheels will interfere with the softop
You might be able to 'balance' more by putting it behind the wheels but I dont think you'd see the benefits you are after.
All that aside, fuel cells/sytems are EXPENSIVE. I have $700 alone into my fuel system, and it just covers cell to pump... does not even replace the stock lines.
Also, I think the stock tank is a lot safer, but thats IMO
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cool. thanks matt! your opinion means an awful lot. I've been just thinking of different stuff to do, I always try to throw stuff by you guys! Still trying to figure out why no one has commented on my newest pictures, maybe cause I put 'em on the wrong forum spot, eh?? Or maybe everyone is so impressed they just are speachless?? God, i'm full of myself! By the way the big f#&*%in' banner on the front windshield sayz "MAXIMUM BOOST', Thanks and my apologies to corky bell.
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I can offer words of guidance... you do what you feel you need to do! Commented on your other thread-